Cyberpunk discussion

I have to go with Mindplayers by Pat Cadigan. It melds science with human psychology so beautifully. Not only does the book take scientific breakthroughs of the future a new direction, into the human psyche rather than away, it also has actual fully formed believeable human beings as characters. Most writers, period, have trouble with this, and unfortunately I think Sci-Fi is an area where more writers than in any other genre (except fantasy) have trouble with believeable human portrayals.

My favorite short story is probably Freezone by John Shirley. It's a chapter of the book Eclipse and while the rest of Eclipse does not live up to Freezone, the story of Rickenharp is so amazing.

I'm not sure if this book is in the strict cyberpunk genre- it may be classified as post cyberpunk. But Neal Stephenson's book Snow Crash was one of the first cyberpunk books I picked up and it remains one of my favorites to this day.

IMHO, Snow Crash is the epitome of Cyberpunk. It is in the same class as the first 4 Gibson novels.

I love Snow Crash, don;t get me wrong, but IMO it isn't the epitome and should take harsh dings because of a couple things. First Stephenson used whole cloth spun by other writers when he wrote Snow Crash. He wrote it years after most cyberpunk was published and he did not come up with anything new on his own except the history aspect.

The fact that other types of fiction he writes steal the genres already worn smooth by others is a sort of proof of this, as is the fact when writing books with scifi flair or cyberpunk elements after cyberpunk died, he founders.

Maybe the term archetypal would have been more appropriate.

I was trying to convey that this book is as Cyberpunk as Cyberpunk can be. I don't claim it as the best or most original.

Snow Crash and Diamond Age were the only books of his I liked. I found all his subsequent work unreadable.

Yeah archetypal fits very nicely.

And I agree, I cannot read his current stuff like Cryptonomicon at all. I tried damned hard to, but I was already really struggling when the soldier's dancing ex-girlfriend with leprosy happened then I threw the book across the room and no longer gave it my precious leisure time.

I would have to agree with you on Cryptonomicon. I was expecting way more from it. Although I did learn a few things about cryptology! I think Zodiac was his only good book outside of The Diamond Age and Snow Crash. I could tell it was a downward spiral for Stephenson, as far as my interests, when he brought out his steampunk series. For some reason steampunk brings up an image of Will Smith in the movie Wild Wild West. Kind of hilarious but not in the complimentary way. Although if anyone has anything positive to say about the baroque cycle books I may take another look at them. Your comment brings up a good question I have about cyberpunk. And this goes back to the original question. Who writes quality cyberpunk? Gibson and Sterling are the only ones who stand out for me. Gibson's last book, Spook Country, looks intriguing but doesn't seem to cast its shadow very far into the future. But, perhaps it will be a departure into a new imagined future slightly different considering some of the major changes in social and environment climate.

I can't remember what they USED to call steampunk. But yeah, I find it hilarious and frankly stupid also. "Hey let's go back in time and do an alternate earth, and let's make them have technology that's whoppingly stupider than real stuff, for like, no reason!" The only good novel of the genre I ever read was about an assassin who also taught at a University. And I have forgotten the name and the author.

Who wrote good cyberpunk?

Gibson
Cadigan
John Shirley
Rudy Rucker
George Alec Effinger
W.T. Quick


Bruce Sterling wrote cyberpunk but unfortunately unlike Cray I think it mostly sucked (Islands in the Net being the one exception), and IMO Greg Bear never wrote a line of cyberpunk and people including him in the genre makes me want to punch something. heh. I personally think John Varley's moon writings are cyberpunk.

There were others but I'd have to check my books. Joan D. Vinge wrote a decent cyber book named Catspaw, and there was a guy who wrote a terrific cyberpunk book about people who used nanotech to make themselves into animals, and the gang wars they fought with each other. Norman Spinrad wrote a cyberpunk called Deus Ex machina that I found mediocre.

Spook Country was excellent even though the pay off was something that seemed more Tom Clancy to me. My favorite would have to be Pattern Recognition. The plot flow and experiences he takes you though are great. The technology that is being discussed is out now or about to be out. I will have to read some of the people in the list above as I have not read most of them. As for Bruce Sterling I have tried to read 3 of his books to no avail. Never finished them I gave them to the library in hopes that some one would like them. Mr. Stephenson I like. I have pretty much read everything by him even The Big U (which can be skipped unless you have some time to kill) I enjoyed all of his books. The concepts that he puts out there are viable. As in a this could happen or may have happened at one point. Anathem dose this in so many ways. But as with most fiction everything in Neils writing can be boiled down as a love story more than anything else. I would stick with Gibson as my number 1 Cyberpunk novelist. Thanks for the above recommendations.

I have some new authors to look into! thanks for the list molly

Akira definitely gets my favorite vote. That thing is just epic.

I also have a lot of problems with Steampunk. When I first bought Perdido Street Station, I gave up after a few pages. Then, a couple of years later, I decided to read it or pitch it.

Well, I ended up very impressed and I liked it a lot. The following book, The Scar I liked as much, or more. The third book, Iron Council, reminded me why I don't like Steampunk. Still, the first 2 are on my (very short) recommended list.


Molly wrote: "I can't remember what they USED to call steampunk. But yeah, I find it hilarious and frankly stupid also. "Hey let's go back in time and do an alternate earth, and let's make them have technology..."

I'm curious how you all feel about another variant that I have named Biopunk. I have read A Mouthful Of Tongues and Strange Trades by Paul Di Fillipo and liked them, albeit only Strange Trades is on my recommended list.

Reading 'Wetware' by Rudy Rucker at the moment. It's the second book in a series and I haven't read the first but it's working as a standalone. It deals with a PI on the moon, a strange drug that melts peoples bodies and cybernetic organisms called 'Boppers' intent on creating human boppers called 'Meatbops.' Weird so far. I like it.

Hey Piotr,

The first 3 of the Rucker series are just hilarious. Skip the 4th one.

Really getting into 'Wetware' so I'll have to track down the rest of the series. I've also got Pat Cadigan's 'Fools' to read after that and 'Altered Carbon' which a lot of people say is the next generation of Cyberpunk writing.

Molly wrote: "I have to go with Mindplayers by Pat Cadigan. "

Molly: Mindplayers is one of my very favorite books. I love that it's a bit less distopic than a lot of cyberpunk and cipherpunk. I met Pat Cadigan last year at World Con, and got to tell her how much I loved that particular book of hers.

That's cool! I wish she was still writing good books. Such a story of the fall of a great writer. She seemed to hate Deadpan Allie though, which always confused me.

Snow Crash is as Cyberpunk as Cyberpunk can be. Good book but just a little longer than necessary.

Altered Carbon is, to my view, not at all Cyberpunk. My "category" is High Tech Far Future. I think Altered Carbon is my favorite book of the last decade. Its only competitor was Neil Asher's The Skinner. Fabulous books. So much adventure that they exhaust you.

For Cyberpunk that will make you laugh so hard that you might wet yourself, try the Software, Wetware, Freeware series by Rudy Rucker. Skip book 4, Realware.

Jed I am going to agree with you. I don't find any of Morgan's books cyberpunk so far. For one thing, takeshi Kovacs is not isolated, disaffected, or even hi tech. If anything he is lo tech. He's also written to be a AntiHero With A High Moral Sense like, so perfectly it's like he planned him for a movie series starring Bruce Willis or something.

Ok, Jumping into the fray, I am with you all on Snow Crash and Diamond Age were outrageous. Truly some of the best stuff out there. They are at the top of my list, I read the first book of the Baroque Cycle and really liked it, good take on a young Isaac Newton but didn't have the energy for the other two.

I also really like Altered Carbon and wouldn't split hairs on the cyberpunkness of it although I would lean towards it not being cyber...

Definitely going to check Software, Wetware series and Mind Players by Pat Cadigan.

Thanks for the good leads!

Snow Crash and Diamond Age are my two favourites. I also loved the Baroque Cycle, read the whole thing twice, although I don't know if it is cyberpunk. Up until now, Gibson was my second favourite author. But I am currently reading Accelerando by Stross, and I would rate it right up there with Gibson's boks.

For me, Snow Crash was excellent and still a book I go back to every now and again. I'm not sure I call Cryptonomicon cyberpunk, but it still reigns as one of my favorite books, I've read it twice now.

In terms of Richard Morgans books, I think the mixing of biology and technology is excellent, and so far Woken Furies (which I'm just finishing) is my favorite; it's a shame there aren't any more in the series!

Originality is overrated. :) Though I love Gibson and Sterling, I think Snow Crash hits all the right notes with me. The weaving of cyptography and linguistics with deliberately ironic characters in a world of such hilarious depth is fantastic.

Anathem isn't cyberpunk but I loved it, as far as Stephenson goes. I guess it's kind of steampunk but not in a bad way.

Probably Paul DiFillipo and probably in the collection "Babylon Sisters". Nanopunk.


Rick wrote: "Molly wrote: "...and there was a guy who wrote a terrific cyberpunk book about people who used nanotech to make themselves into animals, and the gang wars they fought with each other."

Not wanting..."

I'm certainly a huge fan of Stross, Morgan and Asher, but it always goes back to Stephenson and Gibson for me. Snow Crash - hands down, but the combination of short stories in Burning Chrome is right with it. If you haven't read The Winter Market, Dogfight, or Burning Chrome, don't hesitate to find a copy.

Also, I'm sort of shocked that nobody has mentioned Walter Jon Williams' Hardwired. One of the very best cyberpunk novels written. Brilliant book.

Totally agree with Bolden. About the roots and about WJW. Hardwired is really part of the classics.

How about Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar?
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41...
Visionary on so many levels: Over-population, John Robb's Global Guerilla-style terrorism...

I also remember a noir cyberpunk novel I loved which involved a pseudo-hero permanently under the influence of drugs, able to throttle his anger through brain switches...

what the fuck do you expect us to say?

Of course there is Neuromancer. and then there is everything else.

I'd have to say that Tom Maddox's Snake Eyes is probably the one story I've reread more than anything else, ever. When I heard the movie might actually get made, I reread Neuromancer for the umpteenth time.

I'd have to say my Big Three cyberpunk authors are Tom Maddox, William Gibson and Walter Jon Williams. Honorable mentions that probably should be in that list include Peter Watts, Pat Cadigan and Rudy Rucker.

What's my favorite book? Right now, It'd be Starfish, first in the Rifters series by Peter Watts. But that'll change in a few days when my mood changes.

Love the Sprawl trilogy, but I actually preferred Count Zero slightly over Neuromancer.

I am glad that some one finally mentioned Walter Jon Wlliams. He is not quite Gibson but still pretty good.

Let us link a cyberpunk novelette we published (we like this novelette, Sidewise Award nominee 2010)

Black Swan

If you are interested, we published a long Interview with Sterling today: you can find it here

Been trying to find the name of a book I read ages ago, I THOUGHT it was neuromancer, but It seems I was wrong, can anyone help?
The main character seems to enforce the death penalty for copyright infringement, whilst the homeless wear metal "billboard" shells in which they live, and corporate employees vital organs are "zipped up" when the flatline for harvesting... Any ideas?

Haven't read the novel, but I know K.W. Jeter's, Noir, deals with some copyright infringement issues. I don't know about the rest of the novel. Even so, it strikes me as a cyberpunk novel that might be worth reading.Noir

Boden wrote: "Haven't read the novel, but I know K.W. Jeter's, Noir, deals with some copyright infringement issues. I don't know about the rest of the novel. Even so, it strikes me as a cyberpunk novel that mi..."
Genius! that was it! I think the copy I had, had a comment on the front comparing it to neuromancer, so I confused the two, I read this book about 15 years ago, and it stuck with me if you haven't read it give it a shot, its darkly beautiful. Many Thanks.

I've read a couple of Cyberpunkish and Steampunkish things lately and I just wanted to give the group a chance to look at them. I'm not claiming they are the "best ever", just trying to help out my fellow readers:
Recursion

Leviathan

Has to be Neuromancer. Hit me like a thunderbolt. But Snowcrash is almost tied. Also like K.W. Jeter.

Josh wrote: "Anathem isn't cyberpunk but I loved it, as far as Stephenson goes. I guess it's kind of steampunk but not in a bad way."

Reading Anathem now - a difficult start but brilliant and funny.

Just finished Anathem and I must say Brilliant! Honestly one of the best. Intelligent , funny complex and plot driven. This is a wild ride through the history of religion, math and quantum physics, with enough character and story to keep the pages turning. You will think about this book for weeks after and with new insights daily. I highly recommend this read but seriously not for the faint of heart.

Makes me really respect Neil Stephenson, this is a tour de force and worth it.

Although not really cyberpunk, but a book with many cyberpunk elements (low-society, high-tech, AI, and body modifications) the Daniel Suarez books Daemon and FreedomTM are excellent reads. Daemon a bit on the slower side to start and is really a techno-thriller, but it tickled my cyberpunk desires in many spots which made me say "I see what you did there." Both of these books had a wonderful universe pitted in a man vs. AI storyline of amazing imagination. The Author also pains himself (if you read his website) to explain how everything in the book is real and COULD happen. Just wanted to throw this out for those looking for something to read who might not have read it. Highly recommend it especially if you game at all.

Gibson's Neuromancer series is my favorite, and I agree with the poster above who said Count Zero was his favorite out of the trilogy. But as also stated, barely more enjoyable. Nobody makes me feel as dirty as Gibson, and I love it.

Great to hear about Anathem, Elena. Stephenson is a favorite author, but for some reason, I've been intimidated by the page count. Hopefully this year.

Russell-
Yeah, cool, I've got Daemon on the shelf. Heard good things about these books and need to get to that one along with the new Walter Jon Williams books, This Is Not a Game / Deep State. Similar territory, I think.

Anyone interested in robots?
The Stories of Ibis - Yamamoto, one of my favorite reads this past year. Very cool stuff on the fringes of whatever we are calling cyberpunk.

My favourite cyberpunk are Neuromancer, Trouble and Her Friends, and Diamond Age, all for different reasons. After those three, I'd place Tea from an Empty Cup. That one boggled my mind.

I like Pattern Recognition better than any of them, but even though I saw it listed here, it doesn't "feel" like cyberpunk to me. I haven't ready his newer books yet, but I think he moved beyond cyberpunk.

I loved Cryptonomicon (which gave me a new take on and love for Athena). I've read some of the Baroque Cycle and enjoyed it. But neither is cyberpunk, IMHO.

-ken-

Pattern recognition is set in today's world. I don't see anything cyberpunk about it except the noir stylings. The big end series are great still, i agree.

Hi, New to this group. I've been reading Cyberpunk ever since (or before) it was called such. Met Gibson when he released Neuromancer. Neuromancer will always be a defining book for me but for pure readability and enjoyment, I love Snow Crash. To me, they are two sides of the same coin and complement each other.

Here is a website you might like (apologies if it's already well known)

http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/

They're definition of Cyberpunk-
http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/defin...

And they're Cyberpunk library.
http://project.cyberpunk.ru/lib/

Also, do you know that the term Cyberpunk was originally coined by Bruce Bethke as the title of his short story "Cyberpunk," published in 1983?

Neuromancer, without a doubt.

Everything else falls in line behind it: Stephenson, W.J. Williams, Richard K. Morgan...

IMO, they're coloring in the lines William Gibson first drew.

I genuinely enjoy Gibson's recent work, although I'd be hard pressed to classify it 'cyberpunk.'

I found James R. Strickland's two novels quite good.

I agree with you about Gibson's recent work. I get the feeling he got bored with Cyberpunk and simply wants to write.

Have to admit this is the first I remember of Strickland. Good part is that his 2 novels there are available for free download on his site! No catch, just post reviews.

Yay!

I actually tried to read Hardwird by Williams a few years ago and never finished it. I didn't actually get 50 pages in. Something about it bored me. Maybe I should go back to it when I'm done with my current read.

Going to be slightly contrarian here. While Neuromancer was a good book, I'm going to have to go with the Mirrorshades and Gibson's Burning Chrome as my favorite CP books.

"Hardwired" was decent. Playing in somebody else's sandbox, for sure, but solid.

I consider Neuromancer unique because it was the first major novel in the genre and (IMO) because of the skill of the writing. I'd never read anything like it before. I'm still in awe of the way Gibson crafts sentences.

I recently discovered Jeff VandeMeer's "Finch" and found it equally fascinating.