SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Ya know, the more I think about this book the more disappointed I'm getting.

Moral: don't think about what you are reading! Treat it like TV...

1) Air supremacy goes to fighters, not bombers, even those with fore-and-aft machine gun turrets (or the ability to spit acid or fire). Giving pride-of-place to the heavy bombers makes sense when they are crucial for taking out ground targets, such as ships or fortresses. But when the important battle is air-to-air combat, the lumbering heavies are sitting ducks.

2) They'd consider killing off 'surplus' dragons during peacetime as too expensive to maintain. But history provided other solutions: force the Colonels to pay for their own cavalries, whilst making military rank so prestigious that gentlemen were tempted to ruin themselves financially for the honor. 'Reserving' dragons to the king isn't plausible until taxation becomes much more advanced and the state much larger.

3) They'd been breeding dragons for centuries, yet only the military had them? I'd have thought some dumbed-down ones would be used by the aristocrats instead of carriages -- what better way of avoiding muddy roads and highwaymen?

4) I'm worried about where this is going to go in the next book (which we've been warned was rushed). The paperback had a 'sample' excerpt, and her treatment of the Chinese appears, at first impression, to be really poor.

As Brad said in the "Initial Thoughts" discussion, Novik just "plops" the dragons into her world. She only explores how they would have changed society in ways convenient to the story she has chosen to tell. That's kind of lazy.

I still think it's a four-star read, but she could have really taken this places...

Excellent points all around, Richard, but number three is the one that bothered me the most, particularly in a Europe where the tide of revolution was everywhere. If the dragons were reserved for the Kings or the Emperors there would never have been a Napoleon. Barricades don't work in the streets of Paris when a dragon can fly over, drop bombs and slaughter revolutionaries at will. Hence, King Louis wins, Robespierre brings no terror and Napoleon never gets his shot. And that is just the big question. You're absolutely spot on about the little questions. Dragons would be convenient in countless ways for aristocrats, and would likely have been used as gifts to a King's own aristocracy, not just as diplomatic gifts between nations. It just doesn't make sense that Dragons are reserved for warfare, particularly with the economic systems of the day (which Novik did nothing to alleviate with her writing; had she addressed this issue, even a little, it might not have been so hard to swallow).

I did enjoy the book, absolutely, but the longer I sit and think about it the more I wish it had been different.

You touch on something I've been thinking about as well, BunWat: "how does the culture treat sentient beings who aren't - by their rules, people?" Temeraire seems to be indicating a move in that direction -- almost a burgeoning demand for rights -- and if future books include this debate, it would increase my desire to move on. I got a real sense that many of the dragons, particularly the Celestials, are superior to man. But even if they aren't superior they are certainly equal, so treating them as dumb beasts (when they are not) is something I can't see intelligent beings sitting still for.

I am fine with what Novik did too. I know I sound like I am nitpicking, but I really did like what she did, especially the Aubrey/Maturin homage.

And I really do feel like I want to play. I like the bringing together of dragons and our world, and the period she uses makes it even more fun. The criticism I have been engaged in is motivated, I think, by a desire for Novik to have succeeded even more. If I have any disappointment it is that she was teetering on something of real greatness and fell short. But her first book, at least, is absolutely worth the time.

Now that I've had a little time away from His Majesty's Dragon, I have to admit that I doubt I will carry on with the books. I expected that I would, but Novik really didn't light a reading fire in me. I can see myself crafting my own idea about Dragons in our world in a short story or two (come to think of it, I already did years ago. I need to revisit that, perhaps), but I can't see myself carrying on with Novik.

It feels strange because I fully intended to a week ago. Is anyone else feeling the same way?

I just got the next two books via a swap site. I'm going to try to get to them shortly, but I'm wrapped up in 3 (was 4 as of last night) other books right now. The first was a good read. I hope the next two live up to my expectations.

Air travel using mechanics is another thing that would have unavoidably evolved differently. Since dragons would have had people in the air early (what would Da Vinci have been sketching instead?), and probably been bred to fulfill multiple functions (high speed couriers we saw in Novik, but why couldn't the big guys do jobs like the Boeings and Airbuses? Especially if bred for high efficiency long-distance flying).

But the political and social clout of the dragonriders and their organizations would probably have slowed mechanical development considerably. Would we have made it to the moon by 1969? Probably not...

I wonder how much history would have changed just from having aerial reconnaissance & a faster method of communication? I'm not a good enough student of history to really know, but I have a feeling that the knowledge gained would have warped the history of the world considerably.

Alvin Toffler points out in Future Shock that one of the huge changes in our civilization was the speed of land travel. For centuries, the 5 - 7 mph speed of the horse or camel was it. One of the most shattering changes is our new mobility & communication speed. We can cross continents faster than men used to be able to cross a small country. Communications between villages used to take longer than it now takes to any point on the globe.

How many battles would have turned out differently with the knowledge of opposing forces? Airlifted supplies would have relieved many trapped forces & enabled them to hang on. Exploration would have gone further, much faster. Marco Polo wouldn't have been nearly the sensation.

I can't think about this any more. I really enjoyed the book, but the suspension of belief is becoming a burden. Dragons would have had to be fairly new or Troy would have won the war with Greece & India would have taken over the Middle East or something. Languages, customs & cultures would all be different & a lot of clashes may never have happened while others would have.

I finished the book in the beginning of January, so I was a little late. I was really surprised that I enjoyed the book - I've never been a huge fan of dragons, especially talking ones. But Temeraire won me over pretty quickly. The human character's were likable, too. I didn't think it was an amazing book, but I didn't expect to like it and enjoy it as much as I did.

This was just the reason I joined this book club - to try out books I would never otherwise pick up.

I'm close to the 50% mark and I'm getting bored. It seems like nothing is really happening.

I guess I see your point Sarah, but I (again) am overly fond of dragons stories to start with and am an equal sucker for coming-of-age tales. The training sessions are enjoyable for me. There battles and such in part III, so it does pick up. I hope to finish today.

I enjoyed the first 2 or 3 but the series has bogged down amazingly.

In a reader review, I saw His Majesty's Dragon called a bromance. I think that captures the essence. The strong theme is a dialogue between duty and personal attachment. Laurence starts out as all about duty, with his personal life put on hold and his family not especially pleased with his choice of career. His relationship with Temeraire is a transformative experience. Dragons don't really take to the notion of duty, but they defer to it out of love for their handlers.

The subplot with Rankin and Levitas puts Laurence's devotion to duty to the test. Laurence obeys the order to stop interfering, but Celeritas acknowledges that the Aerial Corps has made an error in allowing Rankin to become a handler. I can only think that this issue will come up again with Temeraire, and perhaps Laurence will have to reconsider the place of duty in light of his relationship.

It has its ups and downs, indeed.
1 great, 2 so so, 3 exciting, 4 meh, 5 awesome, 6-7 total filler, 8 mixed bag. I hope the last book will be the best one

Chris wrote: "In a reader review, I saw His Majesty's Dragon called a bromance. I think that captures the essence. The strong theme is a dialogue between duty and personal attachment. Laurence starts out as all ..."

Yes, I was particularly struck by the use of "My dear" by Laurence as his affectionate name for Temeraire. It seemed to indicate a level of intimacy not usually seen in so relaxed a way in male/male friendships. It was hard to tell if this was because of the fact that Temeraire was a dragon, or because of the nature of male friendships in that time period, or just something special about their relationship in particular, but in either case I really enjoyed that aspect.

It always throws me when I'm reading 19th century British lit and the guys go down the street arm in arm. My 21st century American brain sort of seizes up for a second.

Actually, thinking about it more, it has nothing to do with my American brain. I don't stumble over it in French lit or even early 20th century. It's something about the rigidity of Victorian England, yet that's somewhere that we're so ridiculously rigid. I guess I expect them to have been overall more stuffy.

Bromance seems like a good description.

The setting is old, but the book is modern. It's full of inaccuracies if you care to look, but I generally don't care enough to bother. I like the story line and plan to continue the series. The last book is coming out later this year I believe.

Just finished this and so far I don’t really see the appeal of the series, so I’m unsure if I’ll continue.
The first part of the book was quite good and I liked how the friendships between Temeraire and Laurance developed. However, the second part was pretty dull. It seemed like I was told all the time what Laurance feels and I don’t like being told, I want to be shown! The third part finally had some more action, but unfortunately, I already lost interest in some of the characters (e.g. Levitas).
As for the world building, it could have been more exciting. I mean just to think about real, bright dragons in the history of our world… the consequences would be immense and I’m sure the stories would be very exciting. As it was, the dragons could have been replaced with any other flying animal. I’m sorry I didn’t like it more, but I just didn’t feel the exhilarating dragon-spirit!

Sabrina wrote: It seemed like I was told all the time what Laurance feels and I don’t like being told, I want to be shown! "

This will be prevalent throughout the series, I'm afraid.

Gosh, the last book was out yesterday. I'm almost one-third through it. So far so good with only one weird event.

Soooo several months late, but still going to add some thoughts:

I enjoyed the book but it wasn't a page-turner for me. This could be a result of reading this directly after several 1000-page novels, which typically allows for more intricate plotting and character development.

I enjoyed the way dragons were portrayed and the varieties in the breeds and temperaments.

Levitas's storyline really tugged at my heartstrings. :(
I also liked the portion where Laurence realizes who Levitas's handler is, and recognizes his errors in judgment there.

I quite liked Temeraire as a character and enjoyed watching Laurence's perception of him change. I especially liked the portions describing Temeraire's excitement in new experiences and new information.

I agree with the other comments about wanting to see dragons in other parts of society. Why only in warfare?

I thought the ending was a bit abrupt. I'm not sure that I will continue to read the series. If I happened across the books I might, but I don't think I would buy them or reread them.

I'll be starting this tomorrow for the buddy read. Looking forward to getting into this series!