Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

Admittedly there is a small field to choose from, since with most of her heroes the ability to turn a witty phrase or wield a devastating quizzing glass is his most potent weapon, but what of those who live more adventurous lives, by choice or circumstance?

For me, the title of favorite swashbuckler is a close run thing between Dominic Alistair and Jack Carstares (although I do appreciate Robin Tremaine's versatility). Vidal just barely wins.

Who is your favorite?

Nick Beauvallet - Wasn't he a privateer--AKA pirate?

Just to be mischievous, I'll put in a vote for Prudence Tremaine aka Peter! :)

Great question, Teresa!! I'm just trying to figure out which of the heroes fit the category before I name my favorite.

So far we have Dominic Alistair (Devil's Cub), Jack Carstares (Black Moth), Robin and Prudence Tremaine (The Masqueraders), Nick Beauvallet. I've always had a fondness for the Alistair family, so I think I would add Alistair senior to the list. I just finished The Toll-Gate and I wonder if Jack Staples fits the bill (he does kill the dastardly villain and rescue the damsel in distress but maybe he lacks the panache to be dubbed a swashbuckler).

Who have I missed?? I'm sure I've missed someone since my reading of late has pretty much been limited to what I can find on Audible (which is definitely not enough).

Margaret wrote: "Just to be mischievous, I'll put in a vote for Prudence Tremaine aka Peter! :)"

LOL! Good one Margaret!! She's definately better able to wield a sword then A LOT of GH heros! I think she'd intimidate a lot of them at least. Good thing the Mountain is made of sterner stuff. I wish I could remember his name - I think he qualifys.

Ludovic, also, from Talisman Ring ( I always seem to gravitate to that novel!).

Cindy, I couldn't remember the Mountain's name either. Since I was too lazy to go upstairs and find the book, I googled and found this website: http://www.georgette-heyer.com/heros..... The Mountain's real name is Sir Anthony Fanshawe --and even looking it up won't help me to remember anything but "The Mountain." When I was much younger, he was one of my favorite GH heroes.

Margaret wrote: "Just to be mischievous, I'll put in a vote for Prudence Tremaine aka Peter! :)"

I think Prudence is worth a vote. She is certainly courageous enough.

Teresa wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Just to be mischievous, I'll put in a vote for Prudence Tremaine aka Peter! :)"

I think Prudence is worth a vote. She is certainly courageous enough."

And she swashed her buckle with the best of them ;-)

Anthony Fansawe isn't as memorable as The Mountain" for sure. Thanks Peregrina!

It has to be Damerel who, to quote Georgette Heyer, wore his clothes with swashbuckling arrogance, but Sir Anthony Fanshaw is definitely a close second, and I wouldn't say no to either of them should they wander into my world.

I suppose Hugo Darracot isn't exactly a swashbuckler, but I love the scene that ends with his saying matter-of-factly to the butler, "You can close the door now."

Mary wrote: "I suppose Hugo Darracot isn't exactly a swashbuckler, but I love the scene that ends with his saying matter-of-factly to the butler, "You can close the door now.""

Hugo was a Major in the 95th Rifles, was in the assault on Buenes Aires, fought with Sir John Moore, was in the sandpit at Le Haye Sainte at Waterloo and shared a billet in Toulouse with Juana and Harry Smith (indeed, it is Harry Hugo refers to when he says Richmond will make a fine duty officer). It is what I LOVE about Heyer's characterization of him, the swashbuckling is all implied if you know your Napoleonic history. He must have been there when Sir John died in at Corunna so I wanted to share this:

Not a drum was heard, nor a funeral note,
As his corse to the rampart we hurried;
Not a soldier discharged his farewell shot
O'er the grave where our hero we buried.

We buried him darkly at dead of night,
The sods with our bayonets turning;
By the struggling moonbeam's misty light
And the lantern dimly burning.

No useless coffin enclosed his breast,
Nor in sheet nor in shroud we wound him;
But he lay like a warrior taking his rest
With his martial cloak around him.

Few and short were the prayers we said,
And we spoke not a word of sorrow;
But we steadfastly gazed on the face that was dead,
And we bitterly thought of the morrow.

We thought, as we hollowed his narrow bed
And smoothed down his lonely pillow,
That the foe and the stranger would tread o'er his head,
And we far away on the billow!

Lightly they'll talk of the spirit that's gone
And o'er his cold ashes upbraid him,–
But little he'll reck, if they let him sleep on
In the grave where a Briton has laid him.

But half of our heavy task was done
When the clock struck the hour for retiring:
And we heard the distant and random gun
That the foe was sullenly firing.

Slowly and sadly we laid him down,
From the field of his fame fresh and gory;
We carved not a line, and we raised not a stone,
But left him alone with his glory.

Charles Wolfe 1816

Wow, that's powerful. Thank you, Monkster.

The poem about the burial of Sir John Moore at Corunna reminded me of some books I've read recently which taught me more about the war in the Peninsula than I knew before, and which might also appeal to those of who who like historical novels. They're not Heyer-like, though. (By that I mean that they are not like her Regency novels. I think they're probably not like her history novels, although I know some of them must cover that subject, because I cannot plough through them whereas the books I'm recommending are very readable!)

They are by Teresa Grant (who also published as Tracy Grant). The one which has most about the Peninsular War is His Spanish Bride. However, several of the other books also refer back to that time, which is when the main characters met. They're called Malcolm and Suzanne in this book, and in the other ones published recently. But they're the same people as Charles and Melanie who appear in Secrets of a Lady which with Beneath a Silent Moon are probably my favourites. I think the author had to change their names when she moved publishers, just as her own name changed from Tracy to Teresa.

The author says that the books can be read in any order. But I suggest starting with Secrets of a Lady, then His Spanish Bride, then Beneath a Silent Moon.

Hj wrote: "The poem about the burial of Sir John Moore at Corunna reminded me of some books I've read recently which taught me more about the war in the Peninsula than I knew before, and which might also appe..."

Thanks for the recs! This is the period where my husband and I overlap interests-wise. He's more interested in the military history, so it's always good to get more for me that I can share storylines if not the text (he's so NOT a romance reader). His big love remains Sharpe I think :)

http://www.goodreads.com/series/54564... Series link for my reference :)

As an aside, making authors change character names so they don't seem to be the same series is quite common unfortunately in those circumstances. Personally I just find it frustrating! To me I'm reading the author, not the publisher, so I wish they wouldn't insist, but I think it's linked to copyright of content in older contracts...

Monkster wrote: "Mary wrote: "I suppose Hugo Darracot isn't exactly a swashbuckler, but I love the scene that ends with his saying matter-of-factly to the butler, "You can close the door now.""

Hugo was a Major in..."

Yes, thanks Monkster! I loved reading this. Made me want to pick up the Unknown Ajax again.

And I know Freddy Standen is the antithesis of swashbuckling heroes, but both he and Kitty Charing make good points about this type. Perhaps Heyer shared their opinions? Certainly she uses the power of understatement to effect with many of her gentlemen. Makes them even more appealing.

Here's what Freddy and Kit say about the matter.

"Oh, no no! Freddy, pray do not! You know it was all my doing! You never wanted to be engaged to me!"

"No, I didn't" he acknowledged. "Thing is, changed my mind! Haven't said anything, because, to tell you the truth, I thought Jack was right: got engaged to me to make him jealous."

Miss Charing blew her nose. "I did. I was utterly wicked, and shameless and stupid!"

"No, no! Very understandable thing to do. Devil of a fellow, Jack! Trouble is--wouldn't make you a good husband, Kit. Been worrying me for a long time. Thought you was in love with him. Don't mind telling you it was as much as I could do to keep a still tongue in my head when he asked you to marry him tonight. What I mean is, like you to have everything you want. Wished it was me, and not Jack, that's all."

Miss Charing raised her face from her handkerchief. "I was never in love with Jack in my life!" she said. "I thought I was, but I know now it was no such thing. He seemed just like all the heroes in books, but I soon found that he is not like them at all."

"No," agreed Freddy. "I'm afraid I ain't either, Kit."

"Of course you are not! No one is! And if somebody was, I should think him quite odious!"

"You would?" said Freddy hopefully. "I must say, Kit, I think you would too. Well, what I mean is, if you ever met anyone like that fellow the Fish talked of--fellow who snatched up some female in the middle of a party, and threw her on his horse--dashed embarrassing, you know! Wouldn't like it at all!"

Ah, good old Lochinvar! I must get round to reading that poem...

Emy wrote: "Thanks for the recs! This is the period where my husband and I overlap interests-wise. He's more interested in the military history, so it's always good to get more for me that I can share storylines if not the text (he's so NOT a romance reader). His big love remains Sharpe I think :)..."

Well, they're not romances, but they don't go into much detail about the military campaign really. Maybe your husband would like Heyer's historicals? An Infamous Army is very heavy on the detail of the battle of Waterloo, to the extent that (so legend has it) officers at Sandhurst used it to study the battle.

And The Spanish Bride is about the romance between Brigade-Major Harry Smith and Juana, who sought sanctuary among officers of the 95th Rifles in the British camp outside the city walls after siege and sack of the Spanish city of Badajoz by British and Portuguese forces in 1812. Juana stayed with Harry throughout the rest of the Peninsula War, and I understand that the book is quite detailed (I haven't read it). Heyer did a great deal of research; reading the diaries of other Peninsular veterans and Harry’s brother officers.

I love that scene. Not conventionally romantic, but funny and touching.

that fellow the Fish talked of--fellow who snatched up some female in the middle of a party, and threw her on his horse--dashed embarrassing, you know! Wouldn't like it at all!"

It would probably be painful, too. Nobody ever things about that. He'd probably yank her arm half out of the socket. Freddy's sensible approach is far less ... bruising.

Hugo Darracot ,,, hmmm [thinking]. I've never thought of him as a swashbuckling hero, despite his service in the war. I can see how he might qualify, but for me "swashbuckling" always suggests heroics that are a bit reckless, and I can imagine Hugo being heroic but not reckless.

Teresa wrote: "I love that scene. Not conventionally romantic, but funny and touching.

that fellow the Fish talked of--fellow who snatched up some female in the middle of a party, and threw her on his horse--da..."

Never thought of that, but you are right. It would have been painful. Cheers to Heyer for elevating true gentlemen! These heroes always 'speaking roughly' and grabbing the girl in 'a bruising embrace' get tiresome sometimes ;)
However, I will always make an exception for Edward Rochester.

Teresa wrote: "I will always make an exception for Edward Rochester."

Ah, a different era! While Heyer's heroines usually don't get kissed until the last page (except the married ones, of course), and Jane Austen's never do, Jane and Edward actually do some necking!

Yes, and don't ask me how many times I have re-read that bit. I'll never tell :)

Jaima wrote: "Cheers to Heyer for elevating true gentlemen! These heroes always 'speaking roughly' and grabbing the girl in 'a bruising embrace' get tiresome sometimes"

And when one of Heyer's heroes does envelop a heroine in a crushing embrace (as occasionally they do), there's no grabbing the girl by the wrist and waggling her around first. Her heroes are far too polished for that.

Hj wrote: "The poem about the burial of Sir John Moore at Corunna reminded me of some books I've read recently which taught me more about the war in the Peninsula than I knew before, and which might also appe..."

Have you read Stella Tillyard's historical novel THE TIDES OF WAR? A fascinating mix of characters, some fictional, some historical. Set in Regency England and Spain during the Peninsular War.

Hi, Mary! Welcome to the group! Or should YOU be welcoming ME? Anyway, there are two of us. If this IS your first post, could you use a last initial from now on, so we won't get mixed up? Or we both can, and hope that we don't both have the initial C. :)

Mary wrote: "Have you read Stella Tillyard's historical novel THE TIDES OF WAR? A fascinating mix of characters, some fictional, some historical. Set in Regency England and Spain during the Peninsular War. ..."

Thank you for the recommendation! I've read several non-fiction books by Stella Tillyard,Aristocrats, Citizen Lord: The Life of Edward Fitzgerald, Irish Revolutionary, and A Royal Affair, which are excellent. I've held off from reading Tides of War: A Novel because I was concerned that it might be too heavy on the historical detail at the expense of the fiction (like Heyer's An Infamous Army). Some of the reviews do say this.

What do you think? Have you read An Infamous Army, and how does it compare in terms of the balance between fiction and non-fiction?

from Mary HD not Mary C (I'm not sure how to add my initials in this group w/o adding them in my other groups...I'll investigate)

I half read/half skimmed An Infamous Army; didn't like it much and would find it hard to judge the history/fiction balance. (It's renowned for its battle scenes?) Tillyard has many more historical characters in her novel, taken from a broad range of Regency society, and which provide a fuller picture of the times. While her book is probably a bit overstuffed, many of the characters are memorable.

I am hooked on Heyer's oh-so-witty-and-funny romances, not her mysteries (which I read) or her history novels (most of which I have not read).

Mary wrote: "from Mary HD not Mary C (I'm not sure how to add my initials in this group w/o adding them in my other groups...I'll investigate)

I am hooked on Heyer's oh-so-witty-and-funny romances, not her mysteries (which I read) or her history novels (most of which I have not read). ..."

Me too! - and that is why I wanted to know on which side of the line Tides of war falls.

(From Mary C.) Funny--I don't remember much about the battle descriptions in An Infamous Army! What I remember best is that it pulls together the two families of Regency Buck and These Old Shades/Devil's Cub. (Judith the Milkmaid has become a bit snotty, as I recall. Pity!)

Mary wrote: "(From Mary C.) Funny--I don't remember much about the battle descriptions in An Infamous Army! What I remember best is that it pulls together the two families of Regency Buck and These Old Shades..."

Whereas I have never been able to finish AIF because it gets so bogged down in the (admittedly masterful) description of the battle of Waterloo.

What about Miles Caverleigh? I love his sneaky, yet practical approach to "kidnapping" Abby Wendover at the end of Black Sheep. Plus, he was sent away in scandal and made his fortune in India. I think that's swashbuckle-worthy.

I think Miles qualifies too. His abduction of Abby was a great scene. And it wasn't his only attempt. Wasn't a thwarted elopement what made his family pack him off to India in the first place? Good thing the story was set in England in the 19th century instead of 18th century France- he would have been put in prison by a lettre de cachet instead!

Seems Miss Heyer wrote more Mark I heroes than we thought. We are gathering quite a list of candidates. I just finished Jennifer kloester's biography of Heyer, and the swashbuckling, George wrotham type were classified as Mark I and the Alastair Beaumaris type as Mark II. I thought that was funny- and so typical of her fine sense of humor.

George Wrotham is definitely a swashbuckling type, but I think his frequent desire to exterminate his fellow men is the result of a frustrating lack of opportunities for the kind of reckless, swashbuckling adventure he craves. If only he could have swooped in and rescued Isabella, instead of arriving after all the excitement was over!

Janine wrote: "What about Miles Caverleigh? I love his sneaky, yet practical approach to "kidnapping" Abby Wendover at the end of Black Sheep. Plus, he was sent away in scandal and made his fortune in India. I th..."

V good! I'd forgotten about him. Definitely a man of action.

Hj wrote: "Mary wrote: "from Mary HD not Mary C (I'm not sure how to add my initials in this group w/o adding them in my other groups...I'll investigate)

I am hooked on Heyer's oh-so-witty-and-funny romances..."

The Tillyard novel is a terrific read, but not amusing. The overall tone of the book as it relates to the characters is poignant (try as they may, things don't work out perfectly for the characters). Adding to the appeal of the book is the wide range of characters - different social backgrounds, different occupations, women moving beyond their traditional roles. The reader gets a more comprehensive insight into Regency society.

Jaima wrote: "I think Miles qualifies too. His abduction of Abby was a great scene. And it wasn't his only attempt. Wasn't a thwarted elopement what made his family pack him off to India in the first place? Good..."

(from Mary HD)

The scene I loved in Black Sheep was the initial meeting of Abigail and "Mr. Caverleigh". It makes me smile just to think about it! I'd say Miles' behavior in BS was of the small "s" sort of swashbuckling. Miles was damned if he was going to follow the social conventions of the day as they related to his interest in Abby, so he didn't!

If the Heyer books ever make it to the small screen (and I do not understand why they haven't - some rights problem??), Black Sheep would be a hit!