Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

Cool.

Well, I work at Penn State Berks (Reading, PA) as a campus minister and I also work part-time as the English language pastor for the Korean Church of Lehigh Valley (I am not Korean). I have a wife and a wonderful 14 month old daughter (hence the reason I began reviewing kids books).

I have been a Christian my whole life. I enjoy reading history, fiction, theology and anything else that strikes my fancy. I think I have become more practical-minded over the years. While I still think there is truth in traditional Christian orthodoxy and such truth is worth defending, I think how we live on a daily basis is much more important.

I could say a lot more, for now I will just say while i still consider myself evangelical, I feel more and more in tune with Anabaptism (freedom of choice in religion, nonviolence as center of Jesus' teaching, separation of church and state, discipleship as way of life and not just getting right beliefs).

This is a good idea, I'm glad you created this thread.

(the whole group was a good idea too).

Anyway, I am planning to study apologetics and/or philosophy of religion in grad school (currently I am an undergrad studying something mostly unrelated). I have gradually come to this decision about grad school over the past few years as my interest and passion in that area has grown.

I am always reading something on apologetics, theology, or Christian philosophy. So far I have focused mostly on the origins debate and subjects within the scope of philosophy of religion (particularly the problem of evil, the divine attributes, the metaphysics of the trinity and the incarnation, divine providence, a bit of natural theology and religious epistemology, etc.)

I do not know for sure what I want to do after school, but as of right now the idea of being a professor of apologetics or Christian philosophy or the like sounds appealing.

Yeah, great idea!

Christianity is my heritage and my roots are quite conservative, but I've recently turned very liberal, so I suspect after a bit of swinging around the pendulum may come to rest somewhere in the middle. I'm of the opinion that if a person doesn't radically change their religious beliefs at least twice in their life, it's a wasted life, so I anxiously await my next great awakening, lol.

I love critical Bible analysis, first-century history and the Historical Jesus...of whom I'm totally enamored.

I'm in the group not because of a love for apologetics, but because I can't really figure out what it's good for...I'm here to learn...attempts to "prove" a religious truth via anything similar to scientific methods seem to me doomed to failure. It seems to me so impossible to really know anything about God that I'm currently inclined to think the proper measure of a religion's validity is how much it inspires one toward humanitarian works...since there is at least no controversy about the value of that.

Oh ... I've written two Poker books, one book about Revelation that's half fiction and half commentary, and a sequel, focusing on John's Gospel, is scheduled for publication in January. Book descriptions are at http://www.thewayithappened.com and Pastor Jeff was kind enough to review Revelation a while back. I operate a book review and Biblical commentary blog at http://www.dubiousdisciple.com

I enjoy learning some of your backgrounds.

I've been a Christian for over 30 years. I've also been a drug dealer, enthusiastic criminal, an extreme sports addict, and a struggling musician. All of those things have overlapped.

Now i'm a truckdriver, with two adopted teenagers, and an awesome wife, with my Mom living in our basement. Life is good. We helped plant a church 16 years ago that's still going.
I went to Bible college for three years back in the early 90's. I studied music and basic religious courses. Sure wish I could do theology full-time. But not with a family to feed.

Anyway, i've always had a passion for world religions. AS a teenager I decided I was going to stick with the Bible as absolute truth until I find a problem with it. 25 years later I still haven't found a problem with it. And I spend thousands of hours listening and chatting with people who hate the Bible. From atheists to Muslims and Eastern religions - I enjoy understanding how they view the Word of God.
I used to enjoy apologetics, but now I find I really love theology. I've been defending the Bible for decades, now I find that understanding God is way more interesting and truly is the heart of the matter.

Defending the Bible is great but loving the Bible with a false theology is very dangerous. Mormons and Muslims love the Bible as well.
As a truckdriver I get lots of reading and podcast time to listen to endless hours of religious studies. Lately John Macarthur is my favourite teacher.

Hi all,

I thought i would take this opportunity to introduce myself. My name is Clark Goble and I'm from Ohio. I am currently pursuing my Master of Arts Bible degree and teach Bible study in my local Southern Baptist church. My interest in apologetics began when I took a class in it for school. I was intrigued by the different theories and approaches to the subject but was left with the notion that most apologists are more concerned with their methodology than lost souls. I walked away from the class with the impression that the prudent apologist should get to know someone and then tailor his/her apologetic methodology to that person. In the end, it's the person that matters rather than my allegiance to a particular method. My interest in the subject was recently rekindled by reading William Lane Craig's 'Reasonable Faith' and John Lennox's 'The God and Stephen Hawking.' Craig asserts that the task of the apologist isn't necessarily to "win" the argument but rather to establish intellectual ground in favor of Christianity. Once this ground is won his opponent then has the intellectual freedom to consider Christ for themselves. I thought this an incredible proposition. I also found that Lennox's book was a perfect example of what Craig was speaking of. So my interest in apologetics has been ignited and I am thrilled to have found this discussion group!

BTW, I blog at theimperfectdisciples.com and invite you to check out what I have written there. I look forward to getting to know everyone in this forum.

Clark

Hi, I'm sort of a long time lurker. Since I follow a couple of people here, my goodreads feed has updates of topics they post in. For the most part I find the discussions interesting but because I'm a little off in left field, I've refrained from joining. I'll remain respectful of other's views and if at anytime I'm asked not to post, I'll respectfully stop.

As for myself, I grew up fundamentalist Word of Faith Pentecostal. I was taught from birth the prosperity gospel, the "full gospel"* message of the holy spirit and the gifts for today, I spoke in tongues from the time I was in elementary school and when I was sick I'd be prayed for with the faith of healing before I'd be ever do something like consider seeing a doctor. I've had several shocks to my faith over the years. I was pretty surprised the first time I read the gospels and the message Jesus preached seemed miles away from the greedy, capitalist prosperity message I've been taught my whole life. Later when I was 21 and I sat down and read the bible front to back for the first time, I had a very hard time reconciling the God of the old testament with the god of the new (I can fully understand Marcion), at one point I was ready to fully give up faith in Christ before I read the scripture on Samuel where God promises David he'd be the father to his son.

I completely lost my word of faith adherence when my grandfather died, he was sick for a while but wouldn't tell anyone because he believed if he admitted he was sick he'd give a foothold to the devil and he waited until it was too late. Moving away from my young adult beliefs, I started to really study and research the bible for myself anew without previously held notions. Not holding into anything I believed growing up, and getting into some more critical / liberal views kind of caused me to swing way all the way to the left (like the pendulum Lee mentioned). I'm now at a place of trying to reconcile my childhood faith with some of the current ways I see things and the world.

Like I said I'm pretty far to the left these days and so I'm pretty sure I'll have very different opinions most on topics (for one I don't hold a view of scripture as inerrant and almost view it as man made). I will bring a very different view, but I'm not sure I'm an apologist, and feel free to ask me not to post if need be.

*Note: I don't really think that other sects actually aren't full gospel, while growing up we'd refer to ourselves as full gospel because some of the other denominations were cessationist and therefore we viewed it as they rejected parts of the bible such as 1 Cor 12, of course I no longer hold this view.

Its interesting all the challenges before us. I don't think God wants us all to end up the same, with identical theology.

There are very few theologians throughout history that agree on absolutely everything. But we shouldn't be wrong about certain issues. Truth is truth.

Hello, all. I'm Pavlo Grijincu, and I live surprisingly close to David H. over there. I live and work in Lititz, PA in Lancaster county, but I happen to go to a Romanian church in the outskirts of Philadelphia. Myself, I was born in Ukraine to parents who were Christian their whole lives, and with years of soviet persecution stories to help me stay put in my parents' faith. I've moved to USA 8 years ago and that's about it for that.

I've just finished college in May as a computer scientist. I got a job and so I work. While I was in school in a class about artificial intelligence, this website was mentioned and as I knew I'd take up reading once I'm out of college, I created an account. And then I had nothing to do, and apologetics is the hot thing now so I joined the group. I used to skim the emails I'd receive from the group, but I didn't pay attention to the discussions. Lately, I decide to voice myself.

I am a very strict thinker, I believe, but I'm not seasoned in Christian logic. I've recently read The Knowledge of the Hold by A. W. Tozer that has made me think of God as greater than I can conceive; this small thought has helped me very much. My attitude to faith is more reverential than logical.

P.S. I enjoy this group, and I think I will be more active in the future. I've seen a great guy in Rod, and I don't want him to fight alone. :)

Wow Pavlo, we're almost neighbors! I grew up in Manheim! Thanks for introducing yourself, maybe we'll have to meet up in the real world sometime.

I think Rod does okay, but he might like the help :) I think we have a good diversity here and I like to think I am middle of the road with some more conservative (Rod) and some more liberal (Lee). Have fun!

David, that's exactly what I was thinking. For now, let's not meet up until we get something to talk about. I'm fairly new here, so meeting up would involve talking about life (mine isn't much), and not arguing what can't be argued on here.

Thanks Pavlo. This is a fascinating place to check and test what we know. I enjoy thinking out loud and being challenged.

My utmost concern here is that everyone has enough of the Truth of Christ to make it to heaven. There are many freaky gray areas of theology - but definitely loads of Black & White.

I doubt we will ever run out of things to talk about.
Thanks David - I'm as fundamental and conservative as a Rebellious stubborn scholar can be. :) Yet i'm a huge fan of the Rolling Stones.

Hello, everyone. I've been resisting the urge to join this group for a while. (I figure I've got enough friends in it that my notification feed is already full enough of the posts here!) We'll see how long I can stick around. I'm from the same area as David and Pavlo, and in fact when I'm around, I hear the topic of supporting David's ministry brought up pretty often at my home church.

I'd describe myself as a moderately conservative Evangelical, which means I'll still look like a wacky Fundamentalist to someone like Lee but probably mildly liberal to a few of the others. (I get the sense that I'm somewhere midway between Rod and David.) I converted to Christianity in my youth and became involved in Christian apologetics a few years after that. These days my focus is more in theological studies and interreligious dialogue. I'm currently obtaining an MDiv, and I think the fact that I'm on GoodReads is pretty good evidence of what I spent a sizable portion of my free time doing.

:) Welcome, JB!

Welcome to the forum JB. I've really enjoyed your comments thus fay and look forward to more.

Clark

So basically most people in the group are from Southeastern PA? Nice.

I'm near Vancouver Canada. (As far as you can get from PA without falling in the Ocean.) ;p

Don't you come trucking to our area, though, Rod? If you do, we'll claim you soon enough. :)

Welcome, JB.

Hello. I'm from Cluj-Napoca, Transylvania, Romania. I'm interested in apologetics since I first layed my hands on book of William Craig Lane. That's all for now.

Welcome István! I enjoy Craig as well ... he makes me think.

Clark

Welcome Istvan. I'm fascinated by Romania. Incredible mountains. I find the Vampires really annoying though. :)

William Lane craig has done alot for modern Apologetics. Him and Norman Geisler seem to be giving us endless things to read and think about.

Pavlo quote:
"Don't you come trucking to our area, though, Rod?"

I used to go through there. Never again if I can help it. Too many trees. :p I prefer the deserts and pacific ocean.

Istvan, bine ai venit. I might make a trip to Cluj to see a friend next summer, though I don't know how likely that is (just that I really want to).

Rod, fair enough. God be with you on the roads. My brother is also a trucker, and it is not an easy life this drive then sleep then drive then sleep thing.

Hey! This is the first group I joined!!!

Wow, way to go Jessica. What type of Milleniest are you? :D

Hope you have fun here. Ask some crazy questions (those are the best.)

Welcome Jessica!

Clark

Hi folks. I've been using Goodreads just as a catalogue for the piles and piles of books I own until I discovered this group. I've had an interest in apologetics ever since I became a Christian because that is how I came to Christ. Since then I've discovered the world of philosophy and scholarship on a wide variety of topics that look interesting to me, so I've managed to find many many books on those topics usually for no more than $4 or $5!

I graduated from Bible College, which I enrolled because I figured that I was called to be a pastor but quickly learned that I was NOT called, (at least not yet, maybe later in life when I've aquired the energy and necessary life experience for it) but perhaps maybe a teacher or prof some day. However, not only do I not feel anywhere near ready to teach or preach, but I also have to fight for the time to read and study. I work fulltime at Walmart, because I need to pay bills and eat, and have no idea what else to do for work, and yet the job also takes a lot of energy out of you which makes reading harder. My girlfriend and friends and family also demand some of my time as well.

So for now the plan is read as much as I can, get aquiainted with as many apologetically-minded people as I can since finding friends with apologetic interests is extremely difficult, although JB knows me well from T-Web. I'd like to maybe teach Sunday School or in a small group to get some teaching experience, when I feel I know enough to do so. And get a master's degree, but I haven't decided yet in which area since my interests are numerous, but the plan is to read a variety of stuff, get a good knowledge base, then head off to a good school somewhere.

Whether or not I end up being a prof or not, I'd still like to do apologetics on the side.

Awesome Jesse. Welcome to the group. Look forward to chatting.

I think people like you who work in a real job are the true "in-the-trenches" Christians. It is so easy for those of us in ministry to end up spending the majority of our time with Christians. You probably have opportunities to use apologetics at work, or at least to hear the questions people are really asking. I definitely encourage you to see your work as a calling - God has called you where you are now...perhaps you will be called elsewhere in the future, but don't miss the present. Sometimes I look back at my days working at CVS and M&M Mars and wish I had seen it more as a ministry opportunity and less as a transition.

41 year old married Mother of 2 awesome teens. My Husband is Navy and we live in Washington State. I was "saved" when I was 9 but didn't understand about grace until I was 27. I'm just hungry for discussion and the company of like-minded people.

Welcome Sandra!

Greetings, I am am a National Guard Chaplain, and University Professor. Yes, I do teach Apologetics. I also teach Logic and a lot of other stuff. I live in Kentucky and am theologically conservative, but socially moderate. I came to faith in Christ in my late teens, but was not raised 'in the church.' I have been published a number of times. My greatest lesson in life has been how little I actually know. I look forward to the company of this, my first, discussion group.

Brent

Welcome Brett! Do you teach at a secular university or a Christian one? (I imagine secular ones don't teach apologetics, so maybe it is a dumb question.)

Wow, new faces. Welcome everyone.

Feel free to discuss anything, I mean anything. Apologetics should not be limited to the boring basics that some reduce it to.

I am more interested in theology than apologetics - but I find they always seem to go together. Our faith should always be logical and reasonably explained.

Even talking donkeys are in the Bible for a logical reason. Good luck!

Brent wrote: "Greetings, I am am a National Guard Chaplain, and University Professor. Yes, I do teach Apologetics. I also teach Logic and a lot of other stuff. I live in Kentucky and am theologically conservativ..."

Welcome Brent! It is nice to see another conservative in our group!

Clark

Hello :0) I joined Goodreads to get my reading list prioritized. I noticed there are groups and thought I'd search for my passion: Christian Apologetics. I admin the Christian Apologetics Alliance group blog, if any of you are apologetics bloggers and care to join :0)

Welcome Maryann!

Clark

wow, lots of newbies since I last looked! Welcome, everyone!

Were up to 67 members. Very nice. Has anyone actually learned anything? :D

I'm new on here. Discovered Goodreads quite by accident and have become hooked!
I enjoy reading the comments and just learned how to join a group. So here I am and looking forward to this new adventure.
I'm not sure what label to use for my views. Some who know me might consider me very liberal-whatever that means! Probably because I don't share their views.
Within the past 10 years or so, I was introduced to Bishop Spong and have greatly appreciated his insights and contributions. I felt liberated after reading all his books. Marcus Borg is the other writer who has impacted me. These are but two of a long list.
I'm looking forward to learning more from all those who participate on here.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Ben

Welcome Ben ... It's good to "meet" you!

Clark

What's all this Nonsense about Jesus being God?

Hello, my name is Ken. I just joined and look forward to reading your posts and interacting with you all. I have been looking for a group like this for quite some time. I have been on other sites but they were geared in a different direction.

I have been listening to Ravi Zacharias for several years, mostly to learn for myself, but then I witnessed how many young people are leaving the church and their Christian roots. I also have talked to numerous people who are confused and searching for answers. In the past, I always tried to direct them to someone I knew was knowledgeable but then I realized those numbers are thinning. While I have felt God nudging me for years to get into ministry, a few years ago I felt the call so strongly I could no longer resist. I am not currently in ministry (vocationally) but am very active in various arenas.

My goal is not to win arguments but compare and consider thoughts and beliefs and weight the evidence. I am stretched between apologetics, theology and evangelism. While each is different, they all fit together.

God bless~

Hi everyone,
I see there are few women here speaking up so I finally decided I might as well be one of them. I am not sure how to define my theology but I am probably far more liberal than many here (like the comment about Mormons which truly cracked me up. I lived out west for many, many years and it was always the Mormons who seemed to live the most Christian lives out there, loving their neighbors, continually "one anothering", taking care of the poor, needy, etc......hard to give them too hard of a time on "wrong belief" when they live lives that are often far more reflective of a life lived for God than the "right believers", whatever that means.....just my opinion though.)

So, while I am not one for holding back, I think, as the Body of Christ, there is room for everyone, not just those who think the same as us. I am far more liberally minded than my fundamentalist best friend, but we both love God and seek truth and strive to live out our calling. We don't have to agree. (We'll see how it goes when she finds out how loudly God has been calling me to the ministry.....so much so that my hearing impaired friend often jokes that even she can hear my call.)

At any rate, I am the mother of 5 children under the age of 10 and outside of raising children, teaching music and running marathons, I spend an awful lot of time thinking/reading/wondering/writing/etc. about all things spiritual. God is good. I am thankful to be here and look forward to the dialogue.

-kd

Hey everyone! I'm from Kentucky, but I'm currently a member of a C&MA church which has a strong presence in Pennsylvania (does that count?). I'm an M.Div that is currently looking for work in a church and has been itinerant preaching since graduation.

I love C.S. Lewis. I like watching Ravi and Craig apologetics debates on Youtube and discussing philosophical implications of worldviews with friends. My brother-in-law claims to be an atheist and is wearing me out in debates, so I'm hoping to get some more help in fighting that battle.

I've been married 6 1/2 years, have one daughter who is 15 months, and another baby on the way. I love reading and writing and playing around on Goodreads. I'm looking forward to some good dialogue with you all!

welcome ken, Karen and nick! have fun debating.

Welcome Chelsea,

Check out our discussion on Evolution - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

I think we agreed that evolution is not a primary point of faith, so you can believe it and be a Christian. My thought is why have a distracting argument about a secondary issue and risk never getting to Christ (and I recently heard William Lane Craig basically say the same thing).

Welcome to the board.

Sorry David but: We have NOT agreed that evolution is acceptable for Christians. Although some of you gave in very easily. I still agree that if someone throws the Book of Genesis in the garbage - they may as well start cutting out other parts (and the liberals always do.) :D

But welcome here Chelsea. This is not really a place where you learn about apologetics - its where you can practise and see how difficult it is to stand up for the truth. (you are probably very aware of that already.)
It's a wonderful place to see what you are made of.

Welcome Nick and Karen and Ken. Let the games begin...

Sorry Rod, I guess I misinterpreted your first post in the thread I linked to. But if we ARE saved by grace through faith in Jesus and if we ARE NOT adding things like the Judaizers in Galatians did then you can believe all sorts of things...

:)

Well, seems the purpose of this topic gone astray. But I'll try to bring it back.

My name is Filipe Guerra and I'm a reformed christian. My first contact with apologetics was at university, when I had to answer the ultimate questions related to christian faith. Well, it wasn't easy task at that time, I had little training on detect others worldview and how to give a proper response to their logical entanglement.
After a brief classes at church on apologetics I became very interested. Today I'm studying Van Til, although his writings is sometimes confusing and difficult to understand. I guess his approach brings evangelism back to the matter.
Well, this is it. I'm from Brasilia, Brazil.

Hello Filipe.