Sherlock Holmes discussion

I really love this mystery. It's my favorite. I love how there's so much backround on Jefferson Hope. And it's when Watson meets Holmes. Opinions? Comments?

I read this recently and also really enjoyed it.

I liked hearing about how Watson and Holmes met. When the flash back to Jefferson and Hope started I initially thought my kindle had got scrambled because the style seemed different somehow. I also wasn't expecting it to be about mormons!

Neither was I! I was like, "Um... What book is this?" But then when I got it, I was intrigued with how they fit perfectly together. I also love in the beginning when they see "Rache" written on the wall and then Holmes goes on describing to Gregson and Lestrade all about the murderer. I was laughing my head off when they were all exasperated. GO SHERLOCK! :)

Watson meeting Holmes is really neat because it's the first time you really get to see what Holmes is like. All his strange habits like practicing violin at 3 in the morning, doing his odd experiments, not sleeping when he is on the brink of a mystery, and of course his amazing powers of deduction and observation. You also first see how humble he is, and how it does not matter to him if he is not given any credit for solving a mystery. However, he can also be conceited, as Watson observed once.

the second part took me for ever to read. It really was like a different book.

Yeah. I was creeped out at first. As soon as they got back to Holmes and Watson, I was like, "Whew! I'm glad that wasn't all for nothing!" XD

lol yeah I am rereading this story. (or um...I am listening to it.)

When I read it the first time, I almost stop reading when it switches to the Old West. I was disappointed in that murder mystery had ended without answering some questions. Thankful for me, I started reading the "second story". I can not remember any story when I liked the murderer and wanted him to succeed. There are villains out there that you like but you don't want them to win. This time I did. He was such a tragic figure.

At first when the story got to the Old West, I wondered if my ereader got the wrong book. But after Doyle returned to Holmes and Watson, I was relieved. I am happy that Doyle put the Old West story in, because it adds extra depth to that mystery.

Alsjem wrote: " When the flash back to Jefferson and Hope started I initially thought my kindle had got scrambl..."

Exactly the same thing happened to me! I began flicking through pages wondering which book the kindle had jumped to. The switch in pace and tone was very sudden.

XD Yeah.

I read this AFTER watching "A Study in Pink" on Sherlock BBC. That kind of changed my perspective but they are both good. ;)

When I saw A Study in Pink, I'd already read A Study in Scarlet, so I was yelling at the TV. "WHAT?! EVERYBODY KNOWS RACHE MEANS REVENGE! NOT SHORT FOR RACHAEL!!!!" My mom was staring at me like I was crazy, but what else is new? XD
But yeah, I guess it depends which one you see or read first. XD

@Mel, I was confused for a while to.

XD

I love when Watson meets Holmes. I also love that Holmes plays the violin, and that he is so good with music. Holmes is so versatile. =D

Holmes is funny in his strangeness. :)

Exactly! Isn't it funny how he just plays around on his violin, making it sound exactly like the mood he is in?

He's great. Incredible. Wish I was like him or knew someone who was ;)

Loved the meeting of Holmes and Watson and everything in the first half...
Didn't like the flashback though. Other than that it was a great introduction.

i read this a week or so ago, my first Holmes and i loved it. It was a very easy read and didnt feel dated. Ive ordered The Sign of Four from the library and will try to read through the books in hopefully the correct order.

:) Yeah, that's what I try to do too. The Sign of the Four is awesome. :D

yeah about the second half I thought i was lost of its a different story but then familiar character names were mentions. :D the story was awsome...im currently reading at the sign of four. :D

Enjoy it! :) It's one of my favorites. :)))

One of my favorite books of all time. I love how it is written and how the second part ties the whole thing together, but you don't know that until the end.

:D Ikr? :)))

I laughed when Watson said he wanted a quiet room mate as he could not handle much noise or excitement as he had enough in Afghanistan

XD Good old Watson. Didn't quite get that wish, now did he? XD

No he didn't

He got something better

Yeah, he got the best of all. Holmes. XD

I just finished this book (in was rereading) BBC Sherlock did a good job keeping the case close to the original.

Yeah. :)))

The thing I was kinda sad about was in A Study in Pink, she was just writing 'Rachel', not 'revenge' in German, as it is in the books. But, I guess ya don't really see everyday people in modern times going around knowing German... I guess... XD

I thought the BBC twist on 'Rachel' and 'rache' was quite brilliant. Especially for those of us who "knew" what the clue meant... Echoed by Anderson. Then summarily dismissed by Mr. Holmes. Funny!!!

And, such a clever update using the name as an electronic password. Love that! The little nods to the details of the original as the writers create the modern Sherlock.

oh yes, the rache thing was hilarious. "No that's ridiculous she was clearly writing Rachel." XD

bfdhsjbfhsja just everything BBC did to echo A Study in Scarlet was perfect. :3

My first Sherlock Holmes! :) Ever! :D I read this earlier this year. And I couldn't stop reading. Since it was my first Sherlock Holmes, it was awesome to be able to be introduced to Sherlock through Dr. Watson's eyes:)

Can't describe it:) Full awesomeness. The flashback confused me a little, too at first xD No warning whatsoever!

EEP, this was my first Sherlock too! :D Love, love, loved it. XD Oh the flashback. I was like, "Whoa where Holmes and Watson go...?" But then I understood and it was just so magical. It all fit together like a puzzle.

I remember when I first read this story and specifically, when I finished reading the flashback, my first thought was "oh boy, this is going to offend a lot of Mormons."

ACD made them sound like a terrifying cult. At least that how I felt.

Mel wrote: "EEP, this was my first Sherlock too! :D Love, love, loved it. XD Oh the flashback. I was like, "Whoa where Holmes and Watson go...?" But then I understood and it was just so magical. It all fit tog..."

Haha, I was a little worried for a minute there ... but I kept reading xD I was like, "This has gotta have something to do with the story ..." I missed them for a while, though.

David wrote: "I remember when I first read this story and specifically, when I finished reading the flashback, my first thought was "oh boy, this is going to offend a lot of Mormons."

ACD made them sound like a..."

Well, you know how he is

He hated his own stories for cheese's sake. And plus, back then everybody was a jerk about any religion that wasn't, like, Catholic or whatever. Back then I would have been roasted on a stick because of the whole religious hate and whatnot. O_o

I've reread this story within the last month. My first go was quite, quite some time ago. I had actually forgotten that the "cult" was supposed to be Mormons. It came as such a surprise to me this time through. I suppose back then, I didn't really know anything about the Mormons and assumed it was a cult that Conan Doyle made up. Funny.

My all time favorite novel. I've always been disappointed they never made a real movie of it. Contrary to what some fans have said, the second half of the novel is one of the things I like best about it, although I'm pretty sure that's why it's never been adapted in the sound era. There was a silent film in the 1910's which is lost now. The 1933 film only had the title. A Study in Pink had certain things in common, I.e. Holmes and Watson meeting, the method of the murder and him being a cab driver, but was still far different, not to mention updated 130 years. The Case of the Cunningham Heritage from the 1950's tv series had the first two chapters where they meet and move in together - and is close to the book - but the subsequent mystery is replaced by a run of the mill murder mystery.

I like the introduction of Holmes and Watson. Having said that, I think that structurally it has the same problem that three of the four novels have (the others being The Hound of the Baskervilles and The Valley of Fear) - while they each have some wonderful characters and moments of high, and very cinematic, melodrama, I think they suffer for long stretches of Holmes being absent.
I don't think there has been a successful film made of any of them because it's hard to work around Holmes' absence. The '68 STUD does a fairly decent job by paring it down to about 50 minutes and converting the backstory to a short narrative/flashback.

I think the formats of the books with the backstories would work great in a film today. The problem wasn't so much the format or Holmes not being in segments of a story, but that films used to follow a certain narrative formula and audiences in turn had expectations of how it should run. Films from contemporary filmmakers such as Christopher Nolan or Tarantino, etc have shown that the narrative doesn't have to be linear.

I was actually incredibly disappointed with the 1968 BBC version for not having the backstory or Holmes and Watson meeting (although that would have probably required it being the first episode of the series and not the middle of the second season).

We will civilly agree to disagree. I think that Holmes being absent from a Sherlock Holmes story is a problem.
When adapting to film, I think the narrative structure is the one that best serves the story, which is harder to assess when there are structural problems with the story. Nolan and Tarantino have worked primarily in original material, not adaptations. Tarantino did adapt Elmore Leonard's "Rum Punch" ("Jackie Brown"), adapting the film's structure to the novel's structure. Certainly he had more latitude in "Pulp Fiction."
Of the two dual narratives - "A Study in Scarlet" and "The Valley of Fear", I actually think the latter is a better work because of the parallel structure.

Except that's how Doyle wrote them. In general a mystery story would be boring if it focused entirely on the mystery and the solving of it. The backstory is one of the most essential parts of it - the why. It also adds to the richness of it. Some authors, such as Raymond Chandler have the characters briefly explaining things, Doyle had characters explaining it in much richer detail, or outright flashbacks.

Doyle didn't just create two characters - although that was his biggest achievement - he also created a world and stories full of atmosphere and flavor, the likes of which we don't see today. I think many Sherlockians and "purists" either ignore or reject some of the best parts of the stories while narrowing it down to Holmes solving the mystery, and indeed inventing details, such as Holmes being rude and entirely lacking compassion. (He's rude and arrogant to an extent)

As for structure, forgetting Nolan and Tarantino, my point was more how flashbacks weren't used much in the early days, but are used more often than not today. Certainly the back and forth time jumps that Nolan and Tarantino use would be off putting.

I'm personally more bored by the dry tv versions of Doyle's stories, and would prefer to see more big screen films, which we've hardly seen since the 70's until the Downey Jr films.

While A Study in Scarlet is my favorite, I loved the Valley of Fear as well, and all the stories. The Triumph of Sherlock Holmes, based on the Valley of fear managed to do a decent job of the flashback.

To put it another way, briefly explaining the backstory makes me feel a little - and would work better for some of the short stories- but to see in detail the trials of John and Lucy Ferrier, Lucy and Jefferson's romance, John being forced by Brigham Young himself to marry off his daughter, the escape, the murder of John, the forced marriage of Lucy, her quick death, Jefferson's 20 year long quest of revenge, and the murders in London packs more of a punch when Jefferson is arrested and dies soon after.