The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
Arthur Conan Doyle Collection
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Fanlore/Fan Fiction-Discussion Thread
Spoiler in second paragraph Lynn - put it in parenthesis before others see it:).
MadgeUK wrote: "Spoiler in second paragraph Lynn - put it in parenthesis before others see it:)."Sorry about that. I was thinking it was common knowledge, but you are right. Many might not know.
I read a wonderful scholarly essay calle "'Clap If You Believe in Sherlock Holmes'": Mass Culture and the Re-Enchantment of Modernity" by Michael Saler.In it Saler talks about how Doyle was mocked because he was interested in spiritualism and also because he published an article about how he believed in fairies and that even included photos of "alleged sprites."
But the main idea of the essay is that while people were mocking Doyle for his beliefs, many of his fans claimed that the Sherlock Holmes character was real and that Doyle was the one who was fictious.
In fact, there were a number of books and magazine articles that treated both Sherlock and Dr. Watson as "real individuals" (600). There were even biographies written about them that "debat[ed] such fine points as which college Holmes attended or how many wives Watson had" (600).
It also talked about the Baker Street Irregulars who meet to discuss the SH stories but refused to talk about Doyle (601).
There was in the 1920s (a bit out of our time period but it will have to go at this point because SH straddles both the end of the 1800s and the early 1900s), an obsession "about every detail of the fictional universe Doyle created" (601).
Lastly, Saler claims that this phenomenon comes about because people were trying to escape the rationalism of those times periods and the growth of big government. (And I would add, it was also after the horrors of WWI).
So people wanted to re-enchant their world. Big magic back.
I think that's true today as well. The modern world is a frightening place, and I think that's why many people (myself included) enjoy escaping into these magical types of worlds. Sherlock - a man who can solve any problem. Quirky, smart, mocks authority, etc.
A very traditional SH:http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=9...
Versus a very modern SH:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=9...
I love SH type coats with the shoulder cape - had one some years ago, in Harris tweed:) They are called Inverness capes, also worn by Dr Who. Wasn't brave enough to wear the deerstalker hat though:(http://www.invernesscapes.com/harris.htm
SH wears a Belstaff Millford coat in the BBC production and my son has one of those - looks rather like an RAF officer's greatcoat:-
http://www.emenfashion.com/20120220/b...
MadgeUK wrote: "I love SH type coats with the shoulder cape - had one some years ago, in Harris tweed:) They are called Inverness capes, also worn by Dr Who. Wasn't brave enough to wear the deerstalker hat though:..."I love the coat that Sherlock wears in the current BBC version. What a beautiful coat. And looks lovely with the blue scarf.
I've heard that sales for that coat have gone way up since the series began.
Dr. Who is getting another wardrobe change. David Tennant had the long coat. But then when Matt Smith came on, they changed it to a shorter coat with bowtie. Now, this upcoming season will be long coat again. I saw a picture - looks very nice. Although not as nice as the Sherlock coat.
I had a slight variation - mine was a cape with that overcape to it. I felt very dashing in it! It was dark loden green. Actually, I still have it, at the back of my closet, but the armholes eventually started to rip at the ends, and I stopped wearing it. I guess I have a hard time letting beloved coats go - I have a few that I really should get rid of.
That green one sounds lovely Denise - you should resurrect it as it will surely be fashionable this coming winter after the BBC series' success in the US!
Denise wrote: "I had a slight variation - mine was a cape with that overcape to it. I felt very dashing in it! It was dark loden green. Actually, I still have it, at the back of my closet, but the armholes eve..."I also have problems discarding clothes that I love. I continue to wear them long after I should. But generally, I don't care, until it is completely in tatters. :-)
And would be lovely if that style was resurrected again...
Yesterday, we were discussing Sherlock and his lack of knowledge regarding the solar system.I found this amusing crossover art: Sherlock and Doctor Who.
Bored! http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?...
It may be that because Victorians were a religious lot, their thoughts about the solar system were confused by what it says in Genesis. I know Muslims who stick to the Koranic explanation and get their kalmeez in a twist!
MadgeUK wrote: "It may be that because Victorians were a religious lot, their thoughts about the solar system were confused by what it says in Genesis. I know Muslims who stick to the Koranic explanation and get t..."I'm not sure if here that has anything to do with Sherlock not know about the solar system. I just think that Sherlock is a workaholic. His sense of worth and what makes life exciting is wrapped up in solving criminal cases. Anything that won't help him solve a case isn't worth knowing.
I think he doesn't like people very much, and I think he's more than a workaholic. He's obsessive about his work, and doesn't really exist outside it.
The only derivative I know is The Seven Percent Solution, by Nicholas Meyer, and the movie made from it. It was considerablty better than "fanfic." And there was also a SH film with Christopher Plummer, but I don't recall if the story was from Doyle or modern.
Rochelle wrote: "The only derivative I know is The Seven Percent Solution, by Nicholas Meyer, and the movie made from it. It was considerablty better than "fanfic." And there was also a SH film with Christopher Plu..."I'll have to look for that Christopher Plummer Sherlock.
I've loved Christopher Plummer since I was a kid, seeing him as the Captain in The Sound of Music.
I've heard of the Seven Percent Solution, but can't remember it exactly. I'll have to check that out as well.
One of my favorite recent books: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon.The title comes from a quote from Sherlock in the short story Silver Blaze: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curi...
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The title comes from a quote from Sherlock in the short story Silver Blaze: http://en.wikipedia...."
That connection went through my mind too. Great minds think alike.
Lynnm wrote: "I've loved Christopher Plummer since I was a kid, seeing him as the Captain in The Sound of Music..."Have you seen him on the stage?
There was a wonderful 1971 movie called "They might be giants." Here is the Netflix description: Retired judge Justin Playfair (George C. Scott) has a most peculiar eccentricity: He believes he's Sherlock Holmes. Betrayed by his scheming brother and placed under the care of psychiatrist Dr. Mildred Watson (Joanne Woodward), "Holmes" searches Manhattan for his elusive nemesis, Moriarty. Life mirrors fiction as the pair are drawn into a world of danger and intrigue -- and an unlikely love.
Deborah - Great mind do think alike. -)Rochelle - Sadly, no. Since you asked, I'm assuming that you have. What play were you lucky enough to see him in? (Very jealous, btw).
Casceil - I've heard of that film, but never watched it. I'm definitely going to be coming back to this thread even when we're done to look up all the great films/books that people are posting.
A spoof of Sherlock Holmes is the movie Sherlock Holms' Smarter Brother, starring some of my favorite funny actors - Gene Wilder (who also directed), Madeline Kahn, Mary Feldman, Dom Deluise, and others. The title kind of refers to Mycroft, who is somewhat acknowledged in the Doyle stories to be even smarter than Sherlock, but in this case, Wilder plays Holmes' younger brother Sigerson.
Lynnm wrote: "Deborah - Great mind do think alike. -)Rochelle - Sadly, no. Since you asked, I'm assuming that you have. What play were you lucky enough to see him in? (Very jealous, btw). "
No, I haven't seen him onstage, but he's always been a highly respected stage actor. Theater prices are such that only tourists and the wealthy can afford to go.
Rochelle wrote: "No, I haven't seen him onstage, but he's always been a highly respected stage actor. Theater prices are such that only tourists and the wealthy can afford to go. "I hear you. When I lived in the City, the only reason that I was able to see a few plays was through my student ID. Most of the seats were good, but once they put us in the first row. I'm short so didn't see 1/3 of the play - from the knees down.
Denise wrote: "A spoof of Sherlock Holmes is the movie Sherlock Holms' Smarter Brother, starring some of my favorite funny actors - Gene Wilder (who also directed), Madeline Kahn, Mary Feldman, Dom Deluise, and o..."That sounds good...I just love Mycroft in the BBC Series. And at least in that series, I do think that he is smarter than Sherlock.
But question for everyone: when am I going to see Mycroft in the novels/short stories? So far I've read A Study in Scarlet - no Mycroft; The Sign of Four - no Mycroft; A Valley of Fear - no Mycroft; and The Adventure of the Dancing Men - no Mycroft.
Hello - where is Doyle hiding Mycroft? :-)
Have you read "The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans?" That story was not in my anthology, so I went to the library to locate it. I saw Mycroft mentioned as I skimmed the first couple of pages.
Emily wrote: "Have you read "The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans?" That story was not in my anthology, so I went to the library to locate it. I saw Mycroft mentioned as I skimmed the first couple of pa..."Just about to start it. I'm so excited now that I know that Mycroft is finally going to be part of the story. :-)
Brett interview (early '90's) explaining why the much-filmed series was done yet again. Side effects of lithium are in evidence. Is anyone familar with the stage production?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9cXAX...
Rochelle wrote: "Brett interview (early '90's) explaining why the much-filmed series was done yet again. Side effects of lithium are in evidence. Is anyone familar with the stage production?
http://www.youtube.c..."
Great find, Rochelle! I really enjoyed that. And didn't know that they had a Brett stage production of Sherlock. Obviously, we know the TV adaptation...
I especially like what he said about Watson's character and his relationship with Sherlock. Watson as the "good friend and gentleman," "medic and soldier," not just an incompetent sidekick. And how their relationship started: both were lonely, and Sherlock is very isolated.
Other interesting things:
- Jeremy said that he's not bored with the character because he stilled is learning exactly how to play Sherlock.
- Jeremy didn't realize how successful the SH shows were until he saw the wide variety of people in the audience at the theater including children. (I think that is true of the original stories as well, and I know that the cast of the recent BBC Sherlock has said that they have been shocked by the tremendous number of people who watch and love the show).
- That he thinks of Sherlock as damaged rather than heroic. (I feel that way too - I don't see Sherlock as a superhero - which is probably why I don't like the Robert Downey Sherlock. Sherlock to me is a bit vulnerable.)
- Loved the Alistair Cooke comment about the three most important people in the last century: Churchhill, Hitler, and Sherlock Holmes! And as Jeremy said, Sherlock isn't even real.
- Jeremy was afraid to play Sherlock at first as well. Ben Cumberbatch also said that. Such a well known character, and people have definite ideas about who/what Sherlock is.
They film a few plays now - wish they had done that with this play so we could see it now.
BunWat wrote: "There's the terrific mystery series by Laurie R. King, beginning with The Beekeeper's Apprentice and now up to book twelve about Sherlock and his wife Mary. ..."Bun, you've beaten me to it. I was just going to mention King's work. It took me years to read the Mary Russell books because I was convinced I wouldn't like them. Yet another thing in my life as a reader which I've been completely wrong about.
I also wanted to mention Anthony Horowitz's The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel. I've been meaning to read it, but haven't managed to get to it yet. It's been quite well reviewed.
Michal Chabon's "The Final Solution" is also an interesting take on Sherlock.
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Thanks BunWat. I loved The Bee Keeper's Apprentice. I've made a note of the other titles as well. Can't wait to explore those.
Casceil wrote: "Michal Chabon's "The Final Solution" is also an interesting take on Sherlock."I love Michael Chabon, but so far have only read a couple of his books.
I will put this on my list. I already have The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay on my list. Which - a connection to Sherlock - is a book that Ben Cumberbatch wants to have a role in if it is ever made into a movie.
Lynnm wrote: "I already have The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay on my list. Which - a connection to Sherlock - is a book that Ben Cumberbatch wants to have a role in if it is ever made into a movie."If he does, I am so there. Wow. One of my favorite books.
Sena Jeter Naslund wrote one that I haven't read yet, but she is one of my favorite authors so I plan to. I think it is called Sherlock in Love or something like that?
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Robin, I think I've heard a bit about "A Study in Sherlock." Is there a Neil Gaiman Sherlock Holmes story in that collection?
This thread is great, I just lost myself in it for awhile!Apparently Sherlock Holmes cannot escape the "50 Shades" treatment, which will probably cater to those watching the BBC Series for Sherlock/Watson undertones:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
I think I'll be sticking to the originals (although the Chabon book sounds intriguing).
Cindie wrote: "This thread is great, I just lost myself in it for awhile!Apparently Sherlock Holmes cannot escape the "50 Shades" treatment, which will probably cater to those watching the BBC Series for Sherlo..."
Oh my. :-) I don't think that I like that.
I don't mind when they play with the classics. I remember that when "Pride and Prejudice and the Zombies" was popular - at the same time, the original P&P was also high up on the bestselling list. Sometimes these variations on the originals get people to read the originals.
And recently, one of the publishers said that they are updating the covers of a lot of the classics to make them more teen friendly. I think that's a wonderful idea.
I'm for anything to get kids to read the originals.
But I think they are now going too far by making them erotic. They is for adults, and adults should be reading the originals.
But that's just my personal, humble opinion. ;)
(And I think the Chabon book sounds great as well!)
Okay, don't care if people think that I'm being silly, but I love the videos that fans have made to celebrate their love for Sherlock films/TV shows. I was going to do this earlier, but didn't want people to think that our discussions would be frivolous, especially since people keep insisting that SH is a “light” read. But since we've had some (very!) serious discussions, a little levity won’t hurt. And if people are going to keep claiming that SH is “light” despite the evidence, we might as well act that way. ;)
Plus, I will admit that I spent last evening catching up on the Comic Con interviews with my favorite Doctor Who actors. Since Comic Con puts as almost as much emphasis on the fans as they do the films/shows, I thought looking at the Sherlock stories (novels or films/shows) through fans eyes are in order.
For the record, making these videos take a lot of time and dedication. I had to make a video for a journalism class, and it took hours and hours - it really is quite frustrating.
I found this one awhile ago, but the tune got stuck in my head this past week. From a 90s animation called Pinky and the Brain set to the BBC Sherlock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPE4-m...
NARF! What would Doyle think…? :-)
I liked this fan artwork - plays off of the cipher graffiti in The Blind Banker:http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=9...
Lynnm, I loved the video you linked. I posted it to my Facebook page.
Casceil wrote: "Lynnm, I loved the video you linked. I posted it to my Facebook page."It's so funny - it makes me laugh everytime I watch it. :-)
This one, the concept is good, but the execution, not so much.But I do like the idea - Basil Rathbone talking about the Sherlock and Watson wannabees: Ben, Martin, Robert Downey, Jr., and Jude Law. And it gets better after the first 25 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmja0S...
I just remembered about a series called Mad Movies with the L.A. Connection, from the 80s. They would take old movies, rearrange the scenes, and dub new dialogue. They're really cheesy, but that makes them even more hilarious! One of the movies was Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon (Basil Rathbone). In this one, Holmes is on the trail of a gang of library book thieves. I found it on YouTube (hope these links work; there are 2 parts, total about 25 minutes):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPhFJk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...
One of my friends also loved these, and we were really cracked up over the 'pirate bar' scene where everybody is saying 'Arrrrr'!
Denise wrote: "I just remembered about a series called Mad Movies with the L.A. Connection, from the 80s. They would take old movies, rearrange the scenes, and dub new dialogue. They're really cheesy, but that ..."That was funny. I loved the pirate bar too....arrrr....arrrrr....arrrr... :-)
(In the BBC Sherlock, Mycroft says that Sherlock originally wanted to be a pirate. I wonder if that was in the canon?)
And also liked in the 2nd video: Any requests? Led Zeppelin. I just love Led Zeppelin.
And the lines, Case solved, no thanks to Sherlock Holmes. Watson: Another blown case. :-)
I was trying to figure out what decade that Mad Movies LA connection was from - end of the 70s? early 80s? So I Googled it - 1985.
Lynnm wrote: "Denise wrote: "I just remembered about a series called Mad Movies with the L.A. Connection, from the 80s. They would take old movies, rearrange the scenes, and dub new dialogue. They're really ch..."I also loved, "Do you think I look like Dean Martin?" - he does!!! I also watched their version of The Little Princess (my favorite Shirley Temple movie), in which Shirley plays a girl named Lenore who is possessed by an evil doll and needs an exorcism. LOL!!! I remember that another one I particularly liked was their version of Night of the Living Dead - I think the zombies are actually guests invited to a party; now that I've discovered they're on YouTube (don't think there are DVDs of this show), I'll have to check that one out, too.
Since we've been talking about Sherlock's bluntness and lack of social skills, I thought of this youtube video - a compilation of Sherlock's insults:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Cca7...
My favorites:
- Don't talk aloud. You lower the IQ of the whole street.
- Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains? It must be so boring.
- Look at you lot. You are all so vacant. Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing.
- She's cleverer than you lot and she's dead.
- Brilliant, Anderson. Yes, brilliant impression of an idiot.
And of course, I love the ending with Watson's comeback to all the insults he's endured: "I always hear "punch me in the face" when you are speaking, but it is usually sub-text."
This is very 21stC conversation and not at all Victorian!!
MadgeUK wrote: "This is very 21stC conversation and not at all Victorian!!"That's because it is a modern update, and not set in Victorian times. :-)
But we are getting there - Jeremy Brett next!
Indeed, (view spoiler)[ when Doyle killed off Sherlock in The Final Problem, fans wore black armbands to protest their hero’s demise and the Strand magazine lost 20,000 subscribers after the publication of the short story. (hide spoiler)]
Today, we see this same type of fan devotion for many mega-pop culture films, including The Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, and Star Wars.
The latest BBC Sherlock series is no exception. After the last episode of series 2 – without giving spoilers – the meme “I Believe in Sherlock Holmes” trended on Twitter, Tumblr, and Facebook.
All of which leads us to fan fiction. Due to their devotion to the Sherlock Holmes “canon,” fans – both professional and amateur – have created their own Sherlock stories, including original fiction, cross-over fiction, art work, and videos. Also included are works that don’t use the Sherlock character, but use catch phrases and lines from the canon as either a starting point or that allude to the original works.
In this thread, I thought it would be interesting to highlight some of the Sherlock Holmes fanlore from film, books, art, and video.
We may have to put on a slight Sherlock persona and look for clues to find the fanlore, although we probably won’t need his genius. Most can be found on the internet, and many posters will know of examples of films and books just from their own experiences.