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Passchendaele: The Untold Story Passchendaele: The Untold Story
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Jon
Jon is on page 170 of 256
Apr 27, 2020 12:17PM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Jon
Jon is on page 120 of 256
Apr 23, 2020 11:39PM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 111 of 272
This ersatz infantry training too was a manifestation of how differently things were done in Second Army: the desired distant objective did not dictate the preparations. The object was total suppression of hostile resistance.

But the best laid plans of Great War tacticians ... hit the best snags. First, As usual the bad weather rendered the ambitious counter battery program myopious,
Apr 03, 2020 12:34AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 110 of 272
A fivefold creeping barrage would plaster the 1km deep zone of assault all day, hugging the foot soldiers advance by progressively slowing down to a standing pillar of fire in front of the day's final objective.

The infantry training over resembling terrain and around scale models instilled a large measure of conformism to match the close advance of the barrage.
Apr 01, 2020 11:39PM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 109 of 272
By the end of the month Haig decided to go with a Big Push: Plumer's Second Army was to stretch out a helping hand at Gheluvelt. Plumer wanted to do it step by step: Nonne Boschen, Polygon Wood..using 5 divisions: 3 in X corps & 2 in Anzac corps, feat. the biggest baddest concentration of battering batteries ever seen in the West: 575 Heavies & 720 field guns in a 5km wide arc, for 3 times the density 31/7.
Mar 31, 2020 11:56PM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 108 of 272
Here Prior is spot on. "These improvements did not adress the essence of his difficulties. 5th army was unable to supply fire of sufficient accuracy & density to carry troops through German defences at little cost, nor to maintain those that did get forward on their objectives in the face of unsuppressed artillery operating in conjunction with the counter-attack forces."
Mar 31, 2020 02:56AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 107 of 272
The first operation went stellar. 19/8 saw 3 dry days, just enough to firm up a few roads for tanks, Cambrai style, to lumber down a few 100 yards, to gulp up those fortified farms. It was the only dry road they would enjoy.

A few later failures-by-yard altered Haig to the tenacity of the German chessboard defence pattern, but he could not simply forward his guns through the muck, only more mop-up infantry
Mar 26, 2020 05:38AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 106 of 272
Sufficiently cowed (or embittered) by the failure of his grand opening, Gough decided to approach Passchendaele in 6 smaller steps. But his handling of "bite & hold" didn't go well.

Prior is unusually condemning about this phase: "what we are looking at are five piecemeal narrow front attacks of a sort that had been tried in 15 16 and early 17 with singular lack of succes".
Mar 25, 2020 02:54AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 93 of 272
August saw twice the normal amount of rain, without dry days, resulting in the haunting image of wounded slowly drowning in craters. A second heavy push against Gheluvelt Plateau on 16/8 achieved virtually nothing. Gough blamed his own infantry for bunching up forward. Haig did nothing to stop it: yet he carries the responsibility for the Go with [insufficient] guns and in such bad weather.
Mar 25, 2020 12:42AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 92 of 272
Was there any way to look positively on this day ?

It was a "good catch" two-thirds along the line, with a lower casualty-to-mile ratio than the infamous 1st of July 1916, but still, for all the metal thrown, again the cavalry command had not scored a rupture.
Mar 24, 2020 07:06AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 91 of 272
The right wing's abundant infantry allocation (II corps had 3 rather than 2 divisions) faced abundantly worse odds against a greater number of intact pill boxes and pre-registered German counter fire. Plumers' act of deception, meanwhile, distracted exactly ...nobody.

The center lost some ground to counter-attacks at the bayonet by unaffected counter infantry from Passchendaele village itself.
Mar 20, 2020 09:22AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 76 of 272
Herein lays the Crux of the "More Guns Solve Everything" philosophy. Were there ever enough to go round ? Artillery was anointed 1917 Queen of the Battlefield by the uselessness of infantry weapons and 120 underpowered Mark IV tanks in swamps.

Artillery commitment had to be total. The Field Artillery was made responsible for the first creeping barrage at two times the density of Arras & some wire-cutting as well.
Jan 31, 2020 05:26AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 75 of 272
Some debate contuined over the merits of a Focus on Gheluvelt, the hardest nut, or of spraying the whole 14km evenly over the week?

PRIOR offers further cryptic remarks on guns sitting idly on the Belgian coast & guns "wasted" by Plumer, who earlier was described as being short of'em to play Main Attacker as a deception.
Jan 30, 2020 11:36PM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 74 of 272
As Major-General, Sir John Davidson on Haig's own staff pointed out that a shorter advance would make things easier for the infantry's relief and promote artillery saturation. Haig only made a "Somme-style" criticism about the bombardment.

PRIOR wrote this 3 year before his Somme study. What is this Somme style criticism exactly ?
Jan 30, 2020 02:27AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 73 of 272
The first day was supposed to carry 5km past Pickem up to Steenbeek (st. Juliaan) & past Broodseinde to Polygon Wood. It did NOT. While still an operation of a "bite and hold nature" & not as ambitious as Haig's Channel-sweeping, it nevertheless reads like an overly optimistic catalogue of the Passchendaele campaign's many bloody battle subdivisions.
Jan 29, 2020 02:24AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 72 of 272
Plumer could either mass his artillery for flank support or use it to fake being the main attacker. he choose Option two. But he didn't have enough guns to fake it. As usual, the real attacker had pooled extra from the neighbours.
Jan 27, 2020 05:53AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 71 of 272
Gough's plan, as any in this war, rested on 4 core elements: Duration of preliminary bombardment (9 days). Length of attack front (14 km). Support to secure the flanks of his 5th Army by French troops on his left & 2nd British Army on the right under Plumer.

The attack launched from beside Houthulst Forest southward to kleine Zillebeke road to take most of Gheluvelt Plateau in ambitious terms of penetration depth.
Jan 20, 2020 02:15AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 70 of 272
the Big Boom at Messines woke up Ludendorff, who dispatched Colonel von Lossburg to 4th Army to increase the number of defence lines from 3 to 5 to 7 on the Geluvelt plateau. A good month later, mid-july, he had a "forward battle zone" of breastworks & concrete MG posts. The word here was old-fashioned "inflexibility" [do other books say this?] until the counterattack could be launched from the rear.
Jan 20, 2020 01:12AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 69 of 272
Once the Ypres planning was shaped (not completely according to his suggestions) Rawlingson was sidelined to plan an amphibious attack from Nieuwpoort for after the prospective Ypres breakthrough, but a German pre-emptive attack at Lombardsijde forced him to sit & wait in an extra cramped salient on the IJzer.
Jan 14, 2020 01:15AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 55 of 272
The famous mines gained the crest, but the creeping was slower than the infantry. It pulled back, looking to observers as a German counterattack. Next, the creeping pulled backward too much; casualties mounted from friendly fire, plus Jerry guns who'd retreated at the last minute before detonation. Regarding these intreprid German cannoneers, the 4th Australian Division, fresh off Bullecourt, took no prisoners...
Jan 13, 2020 04:18AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 55 of 272
Expressed in numbers rather than qualitative improvements, "Messines had 300 planes , 756 heavies & 1510 field guns, for an overall 2:1 superiority in artillery. The period from 21 to 31 May saw a wire-cutting barrage, answered by heavy German counter-fire."
[note to Prior: how important was the focus on wire vs. anti-battery? How many spotter planes vs. anti-Jagdstaffeln ? Throw some numbers THAT way. ]
Jan 13, 2020 03:17AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 55 of 272
Messines reaped the rewards from Arras' excellent artillery planning w/ multiple barrages 500 yard deep total + long-range suppressing fire from Vickers heavy MG & all-new spotting techniques for counter-battery fire, which became a priority. W/ Better calculations than Somme of ammo & heavy guns per yard frontage & per enemy gun, but once moved forward these calculations had to start over & became a guessing game.
Jan 13, 2020 03:11AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 45 of 272
Haig was vacilitating, but towards the big goal of bursting the salient and the coast. Hubert Gough was brought to Ypres to instill a breakthrough spirit (Robin Neillands also identifies him as a "thruster" - but out of his league commanding an Army)
Jan 06, 2020 04:16AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 45 of 272
Rawlingson wanted to capture Messines first (the mines were ready), move all his heavy guns forward in 72 hours to tackle Gheluvelt etc. Haig ended up discarding all proposals & after the failiure at Chemin des Dames, split off Messines, with any follow-up operation postponed to weeks later. Why the wait?
Jan 06, 2020 03:21AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 45 of 272
All in all, Rawlingson had come up with the only good plan: Plumer's alternative was to advance towards Passchendaele by careful stages, with an artillery weight which would require more guns than Britain had in the entire west! The think tank at Haig's own HQ wanted to take Pilckem and Messines Ridge with guns and take Gheluvelt only with tanks ; in a wooded, swampy terrain this would've constituted suicide.
Jan 03, 2020 02:19AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Thomas
Thomas is on page 53 of 280
Aug 31, 2019 03:18AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 18 of 272
Prior poses that if the politicians could control the next Flanders offensive by the phase, they had the power to abort the next advance based on poor returns. At the same time, Indecision more than inevitability seems his password on such political strategic control. No alternative to a sustained mode of attack in France could be judged suitable...
Aug 19, 2019 01:54AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 17 of 272
Haig was not a supreme commander or military dictator; he was 'merely' commanding a task force under the supervision of a civilian democracy. Lloyd George was not politically isolated or too weak to resist Haig's Flanders focus when he wanted to. Neither was "Big Ypres 3" inevitable. Contrary, operations with limited objectives seemed to start paying off, such as Arras or the recapture of Verdun ground by Nivelle.
Aug 19, 2019 01:01AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 16 of 272
Haig & Rawlingson disputed over extent of the attack front, need for a deception attack, whether to inflict indirect bombardment on the German 2nd line, invisible to British spotters, & relative merits of a bite-&-hold approach vs. the Big Push. Rawlingson yielded over the Somme because Haig had protected him from dismissal by John French in '15, but these tactical-strategic twist apples will resurface in Flanders
Aug 08, 2019 03:30AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

Dimitri
Dimitri is on page 15 of 272
The Somme planning predates Verdun so there is no true causal relation (a popular misconception) but it did reveal the vital role of artillery, rather than manpower. P&W paint a languid picture of civilian decision making [..but I wonder, couldn't Lloyd George have sped up ammo production?] The only true concession to Verdun was that the British needed to bear the brunt of the joint offensive.
Aug 08, 2019 03:26AM Add a comment
Passchendaele: The Untold Story

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