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We have countless ways that we've described sunrises and sunsets, but it's pretty universal in our words that the sun arises from the East and sinks into the West.
When Severian describes sunrises and sunsets, he writes about the Eastern horizon falling below the sun at dawn, and the Western horizon rising up to cover the sun at dusk.
— Oct 18, 2025 09:21PM
When Severian describes sunrises and sunsets, he writes about the Eastern horizon falling below the sun at dawn, and the Western horizon rising up to cover the sun at dusk.
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Oct 18, 2025 10:50PM
He also says something very interesting about Urth's core...
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Yeah, I wonder if that's true about Urth's core. With a dead core we'd (probably) lose our magnetosphere and solar radiation would (probably) fry us. Then again, maybe they have access to unknowable terraforming tech.The whole bit about the sun rising versus the horizon falling really made me think about how geocentric our worldview is, compared to the more accurate heliocentric wording that Severian uses. Here on Earth, in some languages even the words for East and West are based on the words for rise and fall.
Z wrote: "Yeah, I wonder if that's true about Urth's core. With a dead core we'd (probably) lose our magnetosphere and solar radiation would (probably) fry us. Then again, maybe they have access to unknowabl...""...in some languages even the words for East and West are based on the words for rise and fall" -- that's fascinating. I've never heard this before. Any examples spring to mind? I have a casual love of etymology.
As for the heliocentric wording, it ties nicely into his desire for the New Sun and the overall atmosphere of the world. Wolfe's diction is so subtle and precise, and I'll admit I didn't pay that distinction enough attention beyond "oh, that's another way the world is different as the Urth is dying"
In Latin you have oriens for "East" from orior "to rise." Occidens is "West" from occidere "fall down." In English we still use oriental and occidental for eastern and western, based on those Latin words for rise up and fall down. A number of Romance languages have similarly related words.Ancient Greek has anatole for "East," from anatello "rise up," and hesperos for "West," but also for sunset/evening. And the connection is still there in modern Greek.
According to Google, it's a pretty common phenomenon, seen in Arabic & Semitic languages, Greek languages, Germanic languages, Slavic languages, Romance languages, ...
In Proto-Slavic the word East was based on the word for "rise up," so a bunch of Slavic languages where the words are linked, including modern Russian and Polish.
In Hebrew and Aramaic, the words for East are related to the words for rise.
Z wrote: "In Latin you have oriens for "East" from orior "to rise." Occidens is "West" from occidere "fall down." In English we still use oriental and occidental for eastern and western, based on those Latin..."Absolutely amazing; thank you for the in depth answer. I speak a Romance language (one with slavic influence, no less) and yet never noticed this. If you have advice on where to read more etymologically interesting connections like this, I'm all ears.
You're welcome. What's your language? Romanian?
Z wrote: "You're welcome. What's your language? Romanian?"Yessirree
