Jasmine (Jazzie)’s Reviews > Wings of Starlight > Status Update

lol go ahead and rant, can’t be that much worse than the fact Gale from hunger games is one of my favorite fictional men ever *cough cough* (sorry peeta fans i can’t help it)

Please rant

What makes Gale one of your favorites? (genuinely curious)

Actually, it can be worse.... I'm seriously thinking about adding my rant to my review, though.

Oh, I haven't read THG, but from everything I've heard about Gale, I like him better, lol.

@B.D, mmmm.... okay, fine.

@Lila’sbooks Idk i always just liked how he was so devoted to caring for his family and Katniss.He took care of Katniss’s family when she went to the games and poor guy watched her pretend to be in love with a random guy she just met. I do believe Petra and Katniss were a better match for eachother but i don’t get all the hate towards Gale. He has some anger issues yeah but if i was in his place i probably would too. Also in the books Katniss doesn’t blame him about the thing (trying not to spoil for those who haven’t read the books) and knows it wasn’t his fault.

Peeta* the movies totally ruined his character, he was great in the books but they made him a whiny baby in the movies and it made me mad. They also made him and Katniss have this major falling out in the movies when in the books they never did and he left on his own accord bc katniss and peeta were together and he knew katniss would always associate him with the thing even tho she knew it wasn’t his fault. LOL i always end up ranging about Gale is an issue

@Jazzie he’s amazing lol

Rant plzzzz. I wanna read this book and I would like to hear the rant before I decide if I’ll read it

Okay, so, as I'm sure many of y'all have heard, there's LGBTQ+ in this book. So far I have only noticed a side lesbian couple (they both play a major side role in the book so we have to read a lot about them and their interactions...), and I've heard that there's other LGBTQ content in here, too, but is it just me, or does it annoy any else, too, that whenever there's a LGBTQ couple in a book that all the other characters are so supportive of it every single time? Like, I know that people usually read to escape reality and wouldn't want to read a book with characters who don't agree with their lifestyle, but it's frustrating when they get annoyed at Christian and clean writers for writing books without LGBTQ+ characters or without spice because it's "unrealistic for our world to not have those things" yet they continuously write LGBTQ content into their books without any characters who don't support it and think it's completely fine to do so even though it's unrealistic for those same reasons.

Like, I have heard of sooo many clean and even Christian authors (or at least authors who believe in God) adding LGBTQ+ content to their books nowadays, yet I have yet to hear of a single character in a secular book who doesn't support LGBTQ nor a character who's Christian and doesn't get mocked in that book for their beliefs. Like, I don't expect authors to start adding characters who don't support LGBTQ into there books, especially when it might could make things so much worse for those authors, but it just seriously annoys me when they make every single character, especially the straight ones, support LGBTQ and think it's completely fine. LGBTQ+ supporting people continually gets mad at Christians for our beliefs and for being "too preachy" and "shoving our agenda down their throats" when they don't even realize that they are doing practically the exact same thing, if not worse, by writing books like this. Idk, it's just aggravating because the math isn't mathing with it.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@Finch! That's a good point. I do agree that Gale gets too much hate. While he did make some mistakes, I don't think he's single handedly responsible for "the thing" like people act like he is. I do like Peeta better but I definitely see where you're coming from. And yeah, the movies did not do Peeta or Gale justice.

Jazzie I agree!

i think the reason most lgbtq characters are supported is because most people are not hateful towards them? and how is it unrealistic for characters to be gay? like they exist in real life, the reason there are lgbtq characters in books is because there are lgbtq people in the world? that's like a book with no women, a book with no children, no people of color, a book with no non-christians, a book with no diversity because you aren't one?

I think she's saying that some pro-lgbtq people complain about there being no lgbtq in some books which gets annoying because not every single book has to have lgbtq. Just because a book doesn't have lgbtq doesn't mean they aren't a supporter of diversity, they just chose not to put it in the book.

You know, not everyone who doesn't support them is hateful to them.

I didn't mean that it was unrealistic for characters to be gay. I mean that it was unrealistic for every character to be supportive of it.

Yeah, what Syd said.

@jazzie I agree. If they are actually trying to be realistic, you would think there would be characters not supportive of it. But then when they write characters not supportive of it, then they write them as jerk homophobes who cuss them out. I don't think that's realistic at all, not every single person who isn't supportive of lgbtq will cuss gay people out or bully them

well honestly i don't know a single homophobic person in real life and i consider myself very social. i know christians and trump supporters and republicans and they're all supportive of gay people at the very minimum because for most people it just doesn't make sense to cast a judgement on someone else's identity that they literally cannot control? in america at least, there's way less openly homophobic people than you think.
and i mean if you wrote a book you'd probably include your beliefs and views, wouldn't you? these authors are expressing their beliefs, all books are political after all.

ash ³³ ᵈᵘ ᵈᵘ ᵈᵘ wrote: "well honestly i don't know a single homophobic person in real life and i consider myself very social. i know christians and trump supporters and republicans and they're all supportive of gay people..."

I think it depends on where you grow up. My family is Christian and aren't supporters. I went to a Christian school and the staff weren't supporters and my whole Christian friend group from that school and church aren't supporters. They're not homophobic tho, they are very respectful.

I'm not saying authors can't put it in their books, but it gets annoying when people complain about a book for not having lgbtq like not every book has to have lgbtq especially when it goes against our beliefs.

i think if you want to be upset at people complaining for no lgbtq content, you don't have the right to complain about lgbtq content. if you choose not to include it, do i agree? no, but it's your book and your decision and i respect people's choices even when i don't agree. but you cannot then go back and complain when people do include lgbtq content, that's extremely hypocritical and discounts your opinion because you cannot pick a point and stick with it.

ash ³³ ᵈᵘ ᵈᵘ ᵈᵘ wrote: "i think if you want to be upset at people complaining for no lgbtq content, you don't have the right to complain about lgbtq content. if you choose not to include it, do i agree? no, but it's your ..."

yeah that's true, I can't complain about people putting it in there, I mean I can be sad and upset like I got sad about a book earlier because it had lgbtq and it seemed like a good book and I chose not to read it, but Im not going to complain and be mad at the author about it. The same should be for the other side.

And this is the reason I was reluctant to share my rant. 🫠

No offense, but I do have to saw that I second everything Syd said. She said it all way better than I probably could have.

Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "And this is the reason I was reluctant to share my rant. 🫠"

lol at least you're not getting bombarded. Ash is pretty chill

@Syd, true. Tbh I was expecting worse but I'm so glad it isn't.

Syd wrote: "Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "And this is the reason I was reluctant to share my rant. 🫠"

lol at least you're not getting bombarded. Ash is pretty chill"

i hope you're not offended or upset when i'm providing the opposing view politely? like i don't think i said anything crazy or unreasonable here and i believe i'm being respectful?
and syd is openly saying that yes you don't have a right to complain about both at the same time. you can choose not to read it and move on with your life, but you need to pick, either complain that people are including too many characters of a certain group, or claim that others are complaining too much about what's in books and we should stop pressuring authors. you're doing both, jazzie, so i personally don't think your complaints have any validity because they are hypocritical and opposing

Hahaha girl are you serious right now?? Being a bigot is not cool. Queer people exist, and just because your religion may say otherwise, or say it is a sin, does not make it true. Also guess what! Queer Christian here, and I learned to think for myself and realize the Bible was written by straight men way back in the day. Crazy right? To realize times change. Queer people are fighting for their lives, and seeing normal representation in books is good. It is clean, and it is disgusting that you cannot see that. You're being a bigot and it is quite frankly horrifying. Grow up and learn to realize not all religious beliefs are correct. Jesus stood for love. I think all Christians need to remember this. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school where we supported everyone. I am a Christian, and I believe in God and I believe in love. He would not have made queer people if being queer was wrong.

Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "Okay, so, as I'm sure many of y'all have heard, there's LGBTQ+ in this book. So far I have only noticed a side lesbian couple (they both play a major side role in the book so we have to read a lot ..."

It’s wild watching you talk about “agendas” while doing Olympic-level mental gymnastics to pretend the issue is “realism” and not simply that you’re mad LGBTQ+ people exist in fiction without being punished for it. Stories reflect the world around them! And in the real world, queer people exist, love, laugh, and function without waiting for a Christian morality play to validate their presence. That’s not an agenda, that’s life. Love and peace and existing. Whereas you hardcore Christians rely on a book written by men thousands of years ago to spew hatred.

And calling it “unrealistic” that characters are supportive? What the fuck? You want people punished for existing, great. If an author doesn’t feel like inserting bigotry into their world, that’s not some sinister plot, that’s them saying hey, maybe my characters don’t need to waste pages being hateful for the sake of fucking hate! Nobody owes you fictional homophobia just to make you feel represented.

What is unrealistic is acting like queer characters appearing in a book is somehow “shoving an agenda,” but trying to condemn or question authors who include them, or being upset about them not adding anti-LGBTQ characters, magically isn’t. If anything is being shoved down throats here, it’s the idea that queer existence needs a moral disclaimer attached because all you religious psychos need hatred to exist everywhere you go to feel fulfilled in life.

The math is mathing, you just clearly don’t like the fucking answer.

Rory [Connor’s Wife] wrote: "
Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "Okay, so, as I'm sure many of y'all have heard, there's LGBTQ+ in this book. So far I have only noticed a side lesbian couple (they both play a major side role in the bo..."

again she's not saying supporting lgbtq is unrealistic. She said that all of the books she reads paints lgbtq as a thing that everyone supports, which isn't true, so many people don't support it. Also not every single person that doesn't support it is a jerk who bullies people, that's what she means by unrealistic. Many of the books I've read also paint Christians as bullies toward gay people which is unrealistic.

@Ash, I didn't say you weren't being respectful about it. I just mean that I knew people would get into an argument, regardless of how respectful, because of it.

In my defense, GR glitches and I didn't see Syd's comment about complaining when I wrote that I seconded everything she said, but although I didn't take her comment that way, technically under the First Amendment I have the right to free speech, which includes complaining about anything I choose. The first, to "complain that people are including too many characters of a certain group" is more so a matter of a person's perspective and my personal beliefs because if my personal beliefs had been different that "certain group" most likely would have been different than the one it is. The second, to "claim that others are complaining too much about what's in a book and we should stop pressuring authors" is a claim that I do believe to be true. People do complain more than they should about that's in books, it's something I do even admit to being guilty of doing myself, but as long as people have differing opinions it will never stop. But I definitely do believe that people need to stop pressuring authors. But if you had noticed, the main part of my rant had been about how I was annoyed that authors always write LGBTQ+ supporting characters and that it's unrealistic to only have those supporting characters and not anyone who didn’t. Like, although I don't support LGBTQ+, I hadn’t meant to come off as complaining about the addition of LGBTQ+ characters and characters who support it rather than to come off as wishing there would sometimes be a bit more diversity with the addition of non-supporting characters even if it was very rare addition.

So, even though I disagree with your opinion that my complaints are invalid because you think they are hypocritical and opposing, I will respect your opinion because you're entitled to that much at least. Although from how I think your overall opinion of me is, I question why you'd use my nickname. Not that I mind all that much, it's just that I find it a bit odd because as someone who's on the opposite side I would have thought you would have gone with my actual name. *shrugs*

you have sent that twice my dear jazzie lol

@Ellie, actually, I do think for myself, contrary to what you may believe. Thank you for stating your opinion, even though you're basing your belief that I am a bigot off of only one rant that I so obviously should have kept to myself. Also, I never actually said normal representation was bad, although I can see why you might think I did. And I don't have to grow up and learn to realize not all religious beliefs are correct because I already know that. Jesus did stand for love, but he was quite clear about sin. If God made queer people, then why did he make an Adam and Eve and not an Adam and Steve?

@Syd, yeah.... Glitchreads striked again. 😂

Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "@Ellie, actually, I do think for myself, contrary to what you may believe. Thank you for stating your opinion, even though you're basing your belief that I am a bigot off of only one rant that I so..."

No, stand up for your beliefs. You have every right to rant about this. just because you face opposition doesn't mean you shouldn't say it. I'll be here to support you <3

first of all, there are plenty of people who do in fact support lgbtq+ there are literally queer christians (i'm one of them), as well as straight christians who support queer people. so having a bunch of supportive characters is not unrealistic. i know that it does depend a lot on your community, but it's still the truth that while yes, there are plenty of people who don't support it, there are also plenty who do. and focusing on those people doesn't automatically make a book unrealistic.

besides, this is literally a romantasy book. it's about fairies. it's not realistic, and the lesbian couple aren't even the focus. why would the author take the time to have a whole plotline about that when they aren't even the main couple? people often read fiction for an escape, and for some queer people who do have to face homophobia irl, it's nice to read a fiction book, where queer people are just allowed to exist without having to deal with any of that. not every book with queer characters has to deal with those things.

that said, there are PLENTY of books with unsupportive characters. but those characters? they're antagonists. because if you're going to discriminate against someone for their sexuality, that's wrong. the same as it's wrong to discriminate against them because of their race, gender, religion, or anything. so yes, when characters don't support lgbtq+ in books, they're depicted as antagonists, because they should be.

if you're questioning why clarion is so supportive, it's because she's a good friend. if i had a friend who had a crush on the same gender, i wouldn't react any differently than if they had a crush on the opposite gender. it makes no difference to me, or a lot of people, so yes, it's perfectly realistic for clarion to be supportive of her friends who clearly like each other getting together, regardless of whether they're straight or queer.

also, putting a queer person in smth just for them to be discriminated against for the sake of "making it realistic" would be homophobic. i'm not saying that all characters have to support them, but if they don't, it should be shown as being wrong.

✧Bella✧ wrote: "
first of all, there are plenty of people who do in fact support lgbtq+ there are literally queer christians (i'm one of them), as well as straight christians who support queer people. so having ..."

not supporting isn't discrimination. That's the unrealistic part we're talking about. Not every single Christian who doesn't support lgbtq is a bully. Not saying there aren't people who support it, but its unrealistic to paint people who don't support it as horrible monsters. We're not saying authors can't support it, but authors are always painting Christians in a bad light or people who don't support lgbtq as horrible human beings.

@Syd, thank you. I think I really needed to hear that I have some support rn.

Jasmine (Jazzie) wrote: "@Syd, thank you. I think I really needed to hear that I have some support rn."

you're welcome! I'll always be here if you need me :)

@Bella, I know that. I was just saying I thought it was unrealistic for every book to only have supportive characters.

I do get that, though.

Sadly, I haven't come across any of those books.

I was meaning it general, really, Wings of Starlight just so happened to be the most recent book that I noticed it in.

@jasmine, really? could have fooled me lol. And well, you very clearly are, and it's not off one rant, it is based off the rant and the rest of your comments. Like, I don't need a ton of rants when you clearly stated what you think in just the one. Yes, that is exactly what you implied, and clearly you think it's wrong based off one book in the Bible. Once again, that is not my point. Yes, God made Adam and Eve. But He also never said Adam cannot be with Steve. That homophobic crap came later because it was a translation. Maybe do some research, though based on your previous comment about the sun not being a star, research isn't exactly your forte. God made queer people because we exist and no matter how much you want to try and pretend that we don't, you cannot. Religion has long been used to hate when it never should have been, and there is much historical and religious theological discussion around whether or not Jesus himself had a relationship with one of the Disciples, and if King David was gay. So, if I were you, I would really stop believing everything you learn from a church that so clearly is shoving an agenda down your throat, and instead do research. Look deep inside and find your own relationship with God, and don't just believe what the Bible and religion tell you. That's rolling over and not finding true faith. Stop using religion as a reason to not support queer people when our very rights are at stake. This is not a game and it is not okay for you to complain a book has queer characters who are being supported when that is harmful to real human beings around you. Queer people have always been here, and you need to find a way to contend with that. Your faith has made you hateful, and it's sad.

Also, saying you don't support a whole group of people? That is discrimination and bullying. It's also extremely disgusting, so please refrain from doing this again. You cannot just "not support" someone's existence. What the hell.

When did she ever say she hated queer people? I don't see it. Nobody said queer people don't exist, I genuinely don't understand why people say that. You definitely exist unless you're a robot, you are a human being talking to us right now so you exist, we just don't believe that lifestyle is God honoring. The lifestyle exists, we believe its sinful.

ellie wrote: "Also, saying you don't support a whole group of people? That is discrimination and bullying. It's also extremely disgusting, so please refrain from doing this again. You cannot just "not support" s..."

again nobody said we don't support their existence. where are you getting that info? We don't support the lifestyle. I don't support sex before marriage, but the people that do that still exist.

It is not sinful. It is queer love, and there is no harm in it. You only say it's a sin because of a mistranslation in the Bible that was not even added until way, way later, so again, do your research. And do not say we because I am also a Christian. Stop assuming all Christians are as bigoted as you

The thing happening here is Syd, who literally posted about being a Zionist earlier, is bending over backwards to clarify what a homophobe said as if either version of what she said is okay. The subtext isn’t subtle and remains the same either way you frame it. Complaining that fiction doesn’t include enough non-supportive characters is exactly the asshole mindset I was calling out, no matter what she meant.

People love to hide behind that “I’m not a bully, I just don’t support it” line as if it magically puts them on some higher moral tier, but refusing to acknowledge a queer person’s right to exist openly is already an act of harm. You don’t have to say slurs or shove someone into a wall to participate in the same system that tells them their identity is unacceptable. Quiet denial of someone’s humanity hits just as hard as an overt denial, and pretending there’s some noble distinction between the two is nothing but a convenient shield because you fucking know you’re wrong. You know but you don’t care because hatred is all you bigots know.

Ellie, choose to believe what you want about me. My faith has not made me hateful, even if y'all believe it has. Go ahead a call me all the different things you want. Make me the villain in this story. But sometimes it isn't the villain who's actually the monster.

ellie wrote: "It is not sinful. It is queer love, and there is no harm in it. You only say it's a sin because of a mistranslation in the Bible that was not even added until way, way later, so again, do your rese..."

How am I a bigot? I swear people just throw out names without knowing the definitions. I am open minded and I've seen the evidence of mistranslation and I have evidence of my own that I have shared in the past so I have my own reasons to believe lgbtq is still sinful. 'We' did not include you, I meant jazzie and me

@syd, I am getting this information from every line she writes. read it again. the insinuations, the fact you even call it a lifestyle?? someone's sexuality is not a choice and not a lifestyle, it is part of their very innate person created by God. Read some historical and religious research before speaking. I actually went Catholic school for nine years and was raised Catholic, and wow, I still think for myself and actually did research.

Rory [Connor’s Wife] wrote: "
The thing happening here is Syd, who literally posted about being a Zionist earlier, is bending over backwards to clarify what a homophobe said as if either version of what she said is okay. The..."

Nobody said we need more books with unsupportive characters. I said all the books I've read with unsupportive characters are painted as monsters, which is false.