Aman’s Reviews > Enemy Feminisms: TERFs, Policewomen, and Girlbosses Against Liberation > Status Update

Why? Now this an actual question because I’m not aware of all the arguments for and against it but I do feel it’s a very complex matter. I agree until the point that they deserve their own rights and there are so many injustices toward them that deserves correcting perhaps starting from our attitude. But What’s the strongest argument to include them specifically in the feminism movement? Wouldn’t that even blur the line of what a woman is and makes the whole movement even more fragmented? I believe there are even more reasons behind this I’m asking because you framed her like she is a bad person for it so why?

i wouldn't call her a bad person; i hardly know her. but it's always a shame to learn someone's a terf (hence the crying throwing up lol). there is no 'unified' feminist movement that is at risk of fragmentation, a lot of the book kinda revolves around calling out, well, enemy feminisms hehe
while i can respect the idea that trans people deserve "their own" rights as a marginalized group and think that it's a step in the right direction, the tail end of that statement (blurring the line, as you say, of what a woman is) implies what i've heard of being described as "metaphysical scepticism" (fancy way of saying trans people aren't actually trans but are in reality just the gender they were assigned at birth and that we're just humoring them) which i personally don't agree with and fundamentally believe is wrong (wrong both in the sense that i don't think it's correct, and that that scepticism is the (im)moral basis of transphobia anyway)
what do you mean by "more reasons behind this"?

Being inclusive to diversity of groups is admirable eko especially like with the race, class etc…but there should be something that unifies for example on the basic concept that feminism aims at establishing equality of both SEXES. Now correct me if I’m wrong but I also saw you using gender so I assume with the thinking that trans is about gender and not sex, it would be difficult without to include it without stretching the concept of feminism as some ideology that deals about anything related to the sexes,gender and who knows what more? And is that not a problem? Because realistically goals are better attained when they’re specific and focused. Which is also why I believe they deserve their own movement because even if so many things are naturally intertwined we can only tackle problems better when we’re specifically addressing each of them. Enji we lose and forget so many things in between. Personal view demo- I don’t feminism achieved even its first wave goals in all parts of the world to even start addressing new issues so when we are in a place where FGM is still practiced and child marriage still occurs, it feels (for lack of a better word) ‘threatening’ when the ideology is just expanding and focusing on newer things because the old but persistent ones get neglected.

thank you for forcing my hand into writing more about this lol, I'll get back to you in a bit!! also i see what all that coffee does (saw the time😭😭)

i feel like there's several levels that this conversation that could be had at and i need to make sure we're at least on the same page of the (metaphorical😂) book, lest we keep sending discursive monologues back and forth. so i'll try and be as explicit as i can with regards to my position, and then try to go from there to your points. (as an aside this is a horrible platform to have a conversation on so keep in mind my dms are always open if you'd like to keep this going!! except instagram starting tomorrow lol)
my position is that trans women are women, and that trans men are men. when i use the term women, i am talking about both cis women and trans women. i do not believe there is a need to have a feminist movement that does not include trans women, (and this last bit is something i'm saying to hammer a point home and do not necessarily fully believe in) not because they are trans, but because they are women.
moving on to your points, let me start from what i agree with, and say "yes, AND." yes, i understand what you mean when you say goals are better if specific and focused, in a very broad sense i agree, AND i also need to call out the nebulous nature of that sentiment because it could (in part at least) be used (and has indeed been used!) to construct feminisms that are imperialist, racist, classist, trans-exclusionary, etc. for example, one could use the "specific goals" argument to say that it's not germane for feminists to specifically talk about the plights of domestic workers in this country because it would be shifting focus away from the general subjugation of ALL women in and out of the household. i think you see my point? i believe it is a feminist goal to talk about the unique challenges domestic workers face, and base one's beliefs and praxis on that. this is all a roundabout way of saying i believe it's a feminist deed to talk about specific subsets of women and how their marginality (?) intersects with their womanhood to put them at greater risk of exploitation and harm.
another point i can somewhat understand is the trepidation to talk about trans issues while we live in a patriarchal society in the imperial periphery where the things you mentioned still happen. god knows i'm doing it here for the sake of the discussion. i think you and i would not find it too hard to agree on the what's and the who's and the why's. i also understand what you mean by the neglect these issues face here, and i completely agree with that. yes, there are issues that are yet to be addressed, AND it is not the case that trans girls and women have anything to do with that. in the same way that cis girls in the imperial core still suffer patriarchal violence sans FGM and child marriage and can still be addressed and advocated for by feminists, so can trans girls.
i think it all comes back to my fundamental point that what i mean when i say women, and what i believe feminists should mean by women, is both trans women and cis women, together. yes, there are challenges cis women uniquely face, and there are challenges trans women uniquely face, AND they should all still be advocated for by feminists as they are still all women.
there is a whole slew of points to talk about that could be a point of discussion/contention: the concepts of "sex" and "gender" and their origins and purposes; the risks of divorcing feminist discourses with other liberatory (?) concepts in fragmenting marginalized groups instead of helping them overvome their common enemy (what bell hooks calls "white supremacist capitalist patriarchy", which i've always thought was a funny but easy to write shorthand lol); the purpose and risks of talking about trans issues in a society that is overwhelmingly homophobic and transphobic; etc. but i've written SO much already and idk if i've edited it to the point of comprehension, and it's only going to get worse if i keep going, so that's it for now.

if you'd like to read the article the author cited on the adichie thing i can share that. it's called "Disregard and danger: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie and the voices of trans (and cis) African feminists" by a south african author, citing african feminists and scholars (unfortunately and understandably there is no contribution from or mention of ethiopian trans people, but it might still help that it is people slightly closer to home talking about this, idk)

Fair points actually what you’ve written all made sense when I read them. I think I’ll have to learn more about the topic before I can reply on which of it I can totally accept and which of it I don’t or if there are more nuances I see against it too.

P.S. I know see why it can be important to make my account private yes😂😂

Alright I will read it…I will also come to ask you more

i am open to questions!! i'll send you the article when i get home, in case you have trouble finding it. and thank you for pointing out the useless private thing yet again lmaoooo

Wait what

is this about adichie😭😭

Yeah. I just read the rest of the comments, I'll try to read said article but man

mmhmmmm