Jayson’s Reviews > Detective Comics (1937-2011) Annual #4 > Status Update

I didn't like that part with Tim either.

Sophia wrote: "I didn't like that part with Tim either."

Yeah, especially when we're talking about a 2001 version of Tim, who would have had more than a decade's apprenticeship under his belt. (view spoiler)[To get done in like that on his first night out is just insulting. (hide spoiler)] I mean, it doesn't exactly reflect well on Batman as a mentor/trainer.

Jayson wrote: "Yeah, especially when we're talking about a 2001 version of Tim, who would have had more than a decade's apprenticeship under his belt. [sp..."

I agree, quite insulting to Tim's character!

Sophia wrote: "I agree, quite insulting to Tim's character!"

Yeah, I'd love to say it stopped there, but it seems Tim's always being diminished by DC. For one, unlike Dick or Jason, he never moved on from being Robin when someone else took the role. They called him Red Robin for a bit, but that's a negligible change, and he's still Robin today.

Jayson wrote: "Yeah, I'd love to say it stopped there, but it seems Tim's always being diminished by DC. For one, unlike Dick or Jason, he never moved on from being Robin when someone else..."

I did not know that he was Robin still, that's crazy!!

Sophia wrote: "I did not know that he was Robin still, that's crazy!!"

Yeah, the weird thing is he didn't have to be. During the New 52, they made a big deal about how he was never really a Robin and emphasized that Red Robin is totally different, and they could have doubled-down on that, but I think they pretty much admitted the logic didn't make sense and just retconned him back to being Robin for Rebirth. To make things worse, he's not even the main Robin, he's relegated to being an ancillary/backup Robin.

Jayson wrote: "Yeah, the weird thing is he didn't have to be. During the New 52, they made a big deal about how he was never really a Robin and emphasized that Red Robin is totally different, and they could have doubled-down on ..."

Why does there even need to be a back-up Robin?? Why didn't they just do what they did for Dick and make him a new moniker for him?!

I mean, I know I'm a bit behind but people seemed to like Tim enough that they gave him his own series when he first started. Surely people would read another series of his if he wasn't a Robin. Like Nightwing, everyone loved his latest series, right?

Sophia wrote: "Why does there even need to be a back-up Robin?? Why didn't they just do what they did for Dick and make him a new moniker for him?!"

Well, honestly, I think they don't really know what to do with Tim, except to have him pop up as a guest character whenever they need a tech guy or some general backup. Not to say that he's vanilla, but he's the most low-key of all the Robins, and in a world where there are too many Robins, he gets lost in the shuffle.

Red Robin was sort of a new moniker. It's from Kingdom Come and was actually used by both Dick and Jason before—it's a recycled name, in the same way that Red Hood was Joker's original name and Nightwing was a Kryptonian superhero. My problem with it is you can't really call it a new identity if "Robin" is still in the name.

I guess that worked for a time, he had his own Red Robin series for a couple of years until the New 52, and then he followed in Dick's footsteps and led the Teen Titans as Red Robin. But his Teen Titans run wasn't very well received and so I think people just soured on the character. Which is why I think he was brought back as Robin for Rebirth, because Rebirth was all about getting rid of things fans hate and bringing back things fans love, and Tim Drake as Robin again felt like good nostalgia.

Sophia wrote: "I mean, I know I'm a bit behind but people seemed to like Tim enough that they gave him his own series when he first started. Surely people would read another series of his if he wasn't a Robin. Like Nightwing, everyone loved his latest series, right?"

I think everyone loves Tom Taylor's new Nightwing run because Tom Taylor writes it. I feel like Tim Drake needs someone on that level to really rehabilitate the character, and he's not popular enough these days to justify an A-tier writer or hot-up-and-comer. Last I checked, Tim Drake did have his own series recently, Tim Drake: Robin, but that was more so to explore his newly declared bisexuality (view spoiler)[with new boyfriend Bernard (hide spoiler)] than anything that could redefine the character. I mean, coming out as LGBT does sort of redefine the character, but not really anything to do with his superhero persona.

Though, honestly, I don't think they would have given him an ongoing series, albeit prematurely cancelled, if not for the attention of being the bisexual Robin. That's another reason for staying Robin, because "bisexual Tim Drake" isn't headline news, whereas "bisexual Robin" is. Frankly, making Damian Wayne the LGBT Robin would make much more sense because he doesn't have any relationship history people are nostalgic for, like with Tim and Stephanie. But then perhaps they thought Damian was too young or not exactly the romantic/dating type, and hence why they chose Tim.

Jayson wrote: "Well, honestly, I think they don't really know what to do with Tim, except to have him pop up as a guest character whenever they need a tech guy or some general backup. Not to say that he's vanilla, ..."

I did not know that Red Robin was a heritage name! I agree that it doesn't exactly give Tim a different identity.

It kind of sounds like Tim has taken over Oracle's position, being the tech support. It's a shame they can't think of what else to do with him.

I also agree that Damian would have made more sense to be the LGBTQ+ Robin.

Sophia wrote: "I did not know that Red Robin was a heritage name! I agree that it doesn't exactly give Tim a different identity."

It's also not a great name because Red Robin is also a fairly popular chain of family restaurants in the US and Canada, and definitely more well known than the Red Robin from Kingdom Come. So, it'd be as if someone was named Starbuck after the Moby Dick character, but everyone just thinks it's a coffee thing LOL

Sophia wrote: "It kind of sounds like Tim has taken over Oracle's position, being the tech support. It's a shame they can't think of what else to do with him."

Yes, I think that was almost exactly his role during James Tynion IV's Detective Comics run, where they made it a Bat-Family team book.

Jayson wrote: "It's also not a great name because Red Robin is also a fairly popular chain of family restaurants in the US and Canada, and definitely more well known than the Red Robin from Kingdom Come. So,..."

Lol that is a funny comparison. And so true, I've never heard of Starbuck from Moby Dick before!

I always found that funny. For a guy that famously claims to 'work alone', he sure has a lot of allies, and 'adopted side kicks'.

Sophia wrote: "I always found that funny. For a guy that famously claims to 'work alone', he sure has a lot of allies, and 'adopted side kicks'."

Lol, yes, it's sort of like how Superman's the "Last Son of Krypton," yet there's so many Kryptonians running around... heck, an entire (bottle) city :)

Jayson wrote: "Lol, yes, it's sort of like how Superman's the "Last Son of Krypton," yet there's so many Kryptonians running around... heck, an entire (bottle) city :)"

Exactly! At least Post-Crisis tried to fix that with Supes (before it all got changed again). It did make Power Girls origins really weird though.

Sophia wrote: "Exactly! At least Post-Crisis tried to fix that with Supes (before it all got changed again). It did make Power Girls origins really weird though."

Yeah, that whole Atlantean retcon seemed totally random. She looked pretty unrecognizable too in that Justice League Europe annual. At that point, she may as well be a totally new character.

Jayson wrote: "Yeah, that whole Atlantean retcon seemed totally random. She looked pretty unrecognizable too in that Justice League Europe annual. At that point, she may as well be a totally new character."

Not only her looks, they significantly diminished her powers too!

Sophia wrote: "Not only her looks, they significantly diminished her powers too!"

I didn't know that. At this point, the only similarity with the original Power Girl is the haircut lol