Score

Sharon: I take it you intend this list to be an antidote to the "youthful hero" culture. But how set in stone, exactly, is "post-60" as the lower limit of the characters/age group qualifying for inclusion? Strictly not a day less than 60 (or even 61) years old, or people of unspecified age but definitely in retirement, or senior citizens (regardless whether still working or not) deserving respect for their lifetime achievement ...?

Not at all set in stone! I'll leave that to the discretion of the voters and book-adders. Certainly, a day below 60 is no problem for me! Or even a week...

Glad to see the list growing -- thanks to all!

Well, I haven't read any of the Rabbit books so I am not in a position to judge. What do you want me to do?

It would be impossible for me to monitor the books to make sure they fit the list, Reese! I haven't read even a quarter of them so the best I can do is hope the contributors monitor themselves -- and the voters think about what they are voting for. That way, the ones that don't fit automatically drop to the bottom.
ANyway, thanks for commenting, and for taking an interest!

Sharon: Welcome to the pleasures of list creating on GR! :) (And apologies for returning to this only now; real life intervened, I'm afraid.)

There practically isn't a list on GR where, sooner or later, somebody won't comment that a given book, in their opinion, doesn't fit the list criteria -- and I'm certainly the first to plead guilty on that count for myself as well. There actually are a number of lists on this site, and you may have come across some of them already, whose contents (at least as they stand NOW) arguably has little to do with the list creator's initial intentions, such as expressed in the list's title and/or description.

Ultimately, my own policy is quite simple in this regard (and this applies both to other people's votes and to my own): I figure it's the list creator's call whether or not any books should be removed (and if so, which ones) ... whoever created the list should also be calling the shots as to what books should be included in it. If the list creator tells me to remove a book, or explains that my additions are not what (s)he had in mind, I'll be more than happy to withdraw the entry/-ies in question. -- This is why I asked for clarification on your part how narrowly you want the description you gave to be construed.

From your responses to both Reese and me, I conclude (a) that you don't intend to monitor this list with the notion of asking anyone to remove their votes, and (b) that the description you gave should not be understood in a narrow sense.

Now, as far as this specific book is concerned, I will concede to Reese that Harry "Rabbit" Angstom isn't exactly your model senior citizen; in fact, he's not a model citizen at any point in his life, which is being traced from age 26 (Rabbit, Run, 1960 -- written when Updike himself was 28) over the course of four novels to Rabbit at Rest (1990), as well as a 2001 "posthumous" novella (Rabbit Remembered). In fact, "not a model citizen" is putting it mildly (and in Rabbit at Rest, Harry finds life catching up with him big time ... and since he's no more willing to mend his ways than at any earlier point, he ultimately pays the ultimate price). So if Reese is correct in assuming that -- whatever broad or narrow interpretation might apply otherwise -- your intention is to highlight books that show their protagonists as worthy of respect because they are able to impart lessons learned on higher wisdom or high moral standards, then certainly "Rabbit" has no place here. If, on the other hand, your intention is to make the point that some respect is due to all those who, even if their lives have not exactly been exemplary (or even far from that), have managed to at least make it through "middle life," or that EVERY person is owed a basic level of respect, and this level certainly doesn't depend on their age group (a fact which our youth-and-beauty-centered culture tends to overlook on occasion), then I'd humbly submit that, just perhaps, "Rabbit" belongs on this list more than many another entry, precisely BECAUSE he is not your iconic model citizen. I concluded from your reference to the book which inspired this list in the first place -- and which, as far as I understand (though I haven't read it) deals with old people being discarded by their supposedly "nearest and dearest" -- that you were less concerned with attributing respect based on an exemplary lifestyle and more with the notion that reaching a certain age group in and of itself certainly doesn't constitute grounds to accord anyone less respect than a younger person. But, again, this is entirely your call, and if I'm misconstruing your intentions I'll be happy to remove the book!

I still think this is a great list, btw. ... and I'm just sorry that a book I added has caused you to have to revisit it so often, OTHER than for the purpose of finding more books you might be interested in! (Which isn't to say I'd think it likely you'd want to check in on Harry Angstrom. :) )

I too have been dealing with real life so here I am again!
Thanks to you both for your comments, much appreciated.

Reese wrote: "Whether our views are similar or not, T-A, I always appreciate your comments; you give others "first-cut beef" to chew on."

Why thank you, Reese, I am honored indeed! :)

I'm also happy to return the compliment ...

Themis-Athena wrote: "Reese wrote: "Whether our views are similar or not, T-A, I always appreciate your comments; you give others "first-cut beef" to chew on."

Why thank you, Reese, I am honored indeed! :)

I'm also ha..."

Sharon wrote: "I too have been dealing with real life so here I am again!
Thanks to you both for your comments, much appreciated."

Rabbit Angstrom's death, like Ernest Hemingway's--very like-- is entirely age RELATED. Rabbit sees the arrival of his grandchild as "a nail in his coffin", he throws his prescriptions out the window, and commits virtual suicide by playing basketball. Or perhaps we should have a separate list for folks who eschew old age and its related diseases.

Reese wrote: "Strong argument, T. But I still won't throw in the towel on the respectability "issue." The criteria for inclusion on the list should be changed if RABBIT AT REST is considered an appropriate sele..."

Rabbit was an appalling philanderer, a sexual heat-seeking missile, a self-absorbed, infuriating....man. I had female colleagues who found him "despicable". We can debate his flaws endlessly. But strangely, I found him worthy of some measure of respect as John Updike's alter-ego, the man Updike believed he might have been without the education he received. Updike, the " poet laureate of suburban adultery. " No matter. If Sharon, Our Esteemed Listmaker, wants him gone, then let him go .... And I'll start my own list on this subject ... if I haven't already.

Reese wrote: "Thom wrote: "Reese wrote: "Strong argument, T. But I still won't throw in the towel on the respectability "issue." The criteria for inclusion on the list should be changed if RABBIT AT REST is con..."

Well.... a role model ? Hardly. No more a role model than King Lear. A viewpoint, rather, that of the quintessential male principle, or rather male unprincipled-ness.
These days am reading Anita Brookner and Ruth Rendell, seeking the Weltanschauungen of women as written BY women, a viewpoint I will obviously never know firsthand. ....And I like chatting with you--am always glad to see "comment from Reese" show up in my Gmail list.

Additions for this list: Stegner - Crossing to Safety

The Diary of Miss Jane Sommers DORIS LESSING admitted to this one

I've added Crossing to Safety, but everyone can do so, Julie -- there's a tab up top next to "all votes."

"Books About Old People" Lolololololol!!!!!

saw the tab but can't work it to add Chalcott Crescent Fay Weldon to books about Old People. Also Old Filth Jane Gardham. Both are 5 star!!!!

Julie wrote: "saw the tab but can't work it to add Chalcott Crescent Fay Weldon to books about Old People. Also Old Filth Jane Gardham. Both are 5 star!!!!"

Old Filth comes up in the search if you spell the author's name Jane Gardam (or just search by book title).

Chalcot Crescent is in the database as well and comes up both under a book title search (spelled with a single "t" at the end) or an author's name search ...

Other books I have not read but that have strong elderly characters : Travels with My Aunt by Graham Greene, The Hundred-Year-Old Man Who Climbed Out of the Window and Disappeared by Jonas Jonasson, Death for Dessert by T. Dawn Richard,

The Silver Swimmers
The main characters are all in their 60's - and looking for meaningful challenges/ relationships/ ways to live their lives......

I know this list has been around for quite some time, but I just discovered it today. The threshold for "old" seems to have dropped significantly - there's no way Kate Shugak, Deborah Knott, Cork O'Connor, Jack Reacher, and VI Warshawski (to name a few) are in their 60s! Walt Longmire, Joe Leaphorn, and Armand Gamache may be creeping up on 60, but I don't think any of them have had that landmark birthday yet either.