Pulp Fiction discussion

As we are all talking about Elmore Leonard (may he rest in peace) I thought we need a thread to remember all the great books he wrote.

Also I think the next poll (to pick November's book) should be a Elmore Leonard theme (if people agree).

Michael wrote: "As we are all talking about Elmore Leonard (may he rest in peace) I thought we need a thread to remember all the great books he wrote.

Also I think the next poll (to pick November's book) should ..."

I think that would be entirely appropriate.

I like that idea Michael. I know we just read Valdez but I'm up for another.

Michael, I like that idea as well.

The tricky part will be to narrow down the list of which books to vote on. This might be a poll with more then 4 books in it but I'm thinking it will need to have book one of the Chili Palmer, Raylan Givens and Carl Webster series.

But go nuts, start telling people what your favourite Elmore Leonard books are anyway.

I agree with one of his books. Maybe we could vote on a theme or series (character) to start? I'd hate to leave out his westerns. I've been meaning to re-read Hombre for some time.

(Whenever I search in the "add book/author" link for "Hombre, Leonard", the first book listed is The Invisible Man & Hombre is 2d. Weird.)

The search here has always been broken. Even if you type in the exact title, half the time it isn't the first thing that pops up.

Next week is all Elmore Leonard for me. I've got a few of his on my unread pile.

Yes on the Elmore Leonard book of the month pick. I don't have a clear favorite of his, I still have so many yet to read.

I'm a step ahead of you, Michael.

Last night I put Neil Young's book on hold while I go through a few of Elmore Leonard's classic crime novels until I grow tired of 'em.

Currently re-reading "Stick".

Great appraisal by Janet Maslin in today's NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/boo...

I would love Elmore Leonard read as group read of the month to honor and remember his great writing.

I havent been online the last week much and i saw the news about his death, i was heartbroken about it. I havent read half of his books but his great writing, style was important to me. I even joined the forums of his official site to talk about him before. One of few great modern authors i could pick up any of his books and enjoy his style, writing.

I saw some critics called him Dickens of Detroit, frankly Dickens isnt good enough classics writer to be compared to Leonard.

Mohammed wrote: "I saw some critics called him Dickens of Detroit, frankly Dickens isn't good enough classics writer to be compared to Leonard. "

Oh boy are you in trouble now with those critics. You do realize that they are a secret society with assassins at their beck and call. Like the Freemasons and Illuminati only much much stronger. It was nice knowing you. :)

Checkman wrote: "Mohammed wrote: "I saw some critics called him Dickens of Detroit, frankly Dickens isn't good enough classics writer to be compared to Leonard. "

Oh boy are you in trouble now with those critics. ..."

Dickens is a popular classics over here, he is not that respected for his writing more for his melodrams.

Not a literary great classic author of the Poe, Gogol,Dostevskjy level. Why i thought compare him to a better classics author.

Mohammed wrote: "Checkman wrote: "Mohammed wrote: "I saw some critics called him Dickens of Detroit, frankly Dickens isn't good enough classics writer to be compared to Leonard. "

Oh boy are you in trouble now wit..."
Sure I understand. Just kidding.

Are there ZERO trade paperback (5" x 8") versions in print of 52 Pick Up or The Hunted?

I was going through my library tonight checking on which Elmore Leonard novels I'm missing.
I need better copies of at least two titles that I have in hardback but the aforementioned titles never came out in HB.

Hoping there are plans to reissue all of his novels -at least in the trade paperback format if not in brand-spanking new hardcover editions.

Elmore deserves it and so do his fans.

Mantan wrote: "Are there ZERO trade paperback (5" x 8") versions in print of 52 Pick Up or The Hunted?

I was going through my library tonight checking on which Elmore Leonard novels I'm missing.
I need better co..."

I would be willing to bet cash money that something is underway.

Mantan: I have a nice mass trade version
52 Pickup

Mantan wrote: "Are there ZERO trade paperback (5" x 8") versions in print of 52 Pick Up or The Hunted?

I was going through my library tonight checking on which Elmore Leonard novels I'm missing.
I need better co..."

I have some of his famous ones like Swag in cool trade paperbacks and i agree i dont like having Pagan Babies, 52 Pick Up, Stick, Killshot in low quality mass market paperbacks.

Thankfully i dont many of his best rated books and can buy the new versions.

Guy wrote: "Mantan: I have a nice mass trade version
52 Pickup"

Can you tell me the publication date & the publisher, Guy? I'm going to have to buy it.

I can't believe I don't have 52 Pickup. I thought I had it in m hand when I was putting Elmore's books in order of publication 2 nights ago. I'm sure I have the hardcover and the paperback but now I can find neither!

Harpertorch 2002 (harper Collins)

I should clarify that it's a mass market paperback, but it is a nice copy with a cover that's a bit hardier than most.

Time arrives on Saturday and of course, there was a great obituary for Elmore Leonard in today's magazine. Here's the link: Time, Sept 8 Leonard

In the obit which was written by Carl Hiaasen, Hiaasen stated that 13 writers were requested by The Miami Herald, where Dave Barry is a columnist, to write one chapter of a book which was ultimately published as Naked Came the Manatee.

After reading the article I began looking for a photograph of Hiaasen, Barry and Leonard mentioned in the article and while I couldn't find it, I did find a gem of an eight minute video of Charlie Rose interviewing all three writers about Naa-kid Manatee... as Rose pronounced it.

It's short and a hoot to watch. No spoilers here, as it's too funny to watch it unfold. Thought you folks might enjoy watching it here: Charlie Rose

Not sure I'll find the photo mentioned in the Time but I'll look more.

Here is a list of the 13 authors. They're Dave Barry, Les Standiford, Paul Levine, Edna Buchanan, James W. Hall, Carolina Hospital, Evelyn Mayerson, Tananarive Due, Brian Antoni, Vicki Hendricks, John Dufresne, Elmore Leonard and Carl Hiaasen.

Being from Florida, I have read many if not all of Florida's mystery writers, therefore am familiar and have read eight of the authors named but don't know if they all live (or are from) Florida. We know, of course, that EL wasn't.

I've only ever read Valdez, which was of course because of this group. I went out and bought Stick and Rum Punch recently -- a lot of members seemed to talk about Stick, and Rum Punch because of Jackie Brown. I didn't know how else to choose! I think an Elmore Leonard poll would be a great way to pick one to start with, since there are so many and people seem to have so many favorites.

Just looking at Elmore Leonard titles and
see he wrote "Maximum Bob" - I will have
to see if I can get borrow that one as I
can remember loving the series.

Guy wrote: "Mantan: I have a nice mass trade version
52 Pickup"

Me, too. I've begun re-reading my older EL novels. I just finished Riding the Rap. Priceless!

Has anyone noticed how bland the re-issues of EL's books are? Okay, I'm prejudiced. I actually know the graphic artist who did a few of his mass market paperbacks. He did Pronto and Rum Punch, forget the others. They are so much more ... well, fun, than the dreary re-issue covers. The new ones seem sort of pretentious, almost pseudo-literary. Doubt EL would think much of them.

Susan wrote: "Has anyone noticed how bland the re-issues of EL's books are? Okay, I'm prejudiced. I actually know the graphic artist who did a few of his mass market paperbacks. He did Pronto and Rum Punch, forg..."

I haven't noticed but haven't been looking. Will now thanks to you, Susan.

I should rate my Leonard collection, I have most of the older ones. KillShot, Stick, Swag, Glitz, LaBrava, Cat Chaser, Mr. Majestyk and 52 Pick-Up are among my favourites.

I just finished re-reading KillShot, the first EL book I ever read. Still loved it. Still stunning.

Question for the learned Elmore-savy members of this group. Riding the Rap featured US Marshal Rayland Givens. (yes, of Justified fame) But I don't believe that was his first appearance. I seem to remember another book where he's in Italy trying to find Harry, a low level mobster. I cannot remember that title. Anyone remember it?

Susan wrote: "I just finished re-reading KillShot, the first EL book I ever read. Still loved it. Still stunning.

Question for the learned Elmore-savy members of this group. Riding the Rap featured US Marshal ..."

Not me...but glad to hear you read Killshot. Loved it and passed it on my friend, Sandy. LOVED IT! Book and Sandy!

I think the one you're thinking of is Pronto.

Thanks, Bobbi. You're right. It starts off with Harry Arno, who also appears in Riding the Rap.

I like Elmore Leonard, but it seems like once you've read one, you've read them all. They're all really similar, what with their bad guy trying to make good, crooked cons, and last minute twists.
There's even been a couple ones that I've forgotten I've read, and have gone back to, only to catch myself in the middle....haven't I read this before?

Matthew wrote: "I like Elmore Leonard, but it seems like once you've read one, you've read them all. They're all really similar, what with their bad guy trying to make good, crooked cons, and last minute twists.
T..."

Hummm, Matthew. Can't say that I agree with you much on that.

Perhaps you've read a couple did that seem similar but I can assure you that all the books he wrote, were not as you said once you've read one, you've read them all.

As you can see from the thread above, this is about prolific writers and he was indeed one of those. Someone here, maybe Mantan, can come up with the number of books he wrote, certainly a lot more than 50 along with screenplays with 19 made into movies and another seven, TV series or movies.

3:10 to Yuma a western, had bad guys and so did Point Blank but other than that there wasn't much else similar. And the books I read, there are bad guys in all of them. I don't read Pippi Longstocking or The Giving Tree.

I feel the same way about Lee Child and the Reacher series as you said....same, same. But Elmore Leonard, no, can't agree with you on that but do respect your opinion.

Anyway, I always welcome differing opinions although I may not agree with them.

Matthew wrote: "I like Elmore Leonard, but it seems like once you've read one, you've read them all. They're all really similar, what with their bad guy trying to make good, crooked cons, and last minute twists.
T..."

Hey, don't ever watch a comedy series on TV will you? I mean once you've seen one you've seen them all - they are all humorous - all they do is make you laugh. While not watching comedies, don't watch or read Police Procedurals, they are all about solving crime - once you've seen one you've seen them all. Don't have more than one kid will you? After all, once you've seen one baby, you've seem them all, they are all the same, smell bad at both ends and make a lot of noise.
You are unrealistic and apparently unimaginative.

I often feel that once I've seen one mediocre type of show, I've seen them all & tend to lump them together. When there is something that really catches my interest or imagination, that's when it all changes. Often, that's through characters.

Leonard's characters tend to make the story for m. Sure, it's another murder mystery or western, but it's not just another one. Instead of another practically perfect, straight-laced law enforcement official, he presents me with Raylan Givens. Instead of Tell Sackett, I get John Russell (Hombre). Wow.

Leonard also has a writing style & eye that appeals to me. He describes what needs to be described, but doesn't go on about things that don't push the story forward. That's the main reason I quit reading Stephen King years ago. I don't want pages of description about mundane items, but King is still super successful, so a lot of people do. Each to their own.

I've always thought that Leonard's books in general revolved around the distinction between amateurs and professionals on both sides of the law, and what happens when members of the former groups run up against those in the latter.

Just because someone is a career criminal doesn't make them a professional or competent criminal, and the same holds for the cops.

Leonard made no bones of the fact that he wrote about crime capers. Capers that very often go wrong. But the devil is in the details. He was a master at creating characters, good guys and bad, male and female. He had an uncanny ability to enter their minds and reveal what they are thinking. Which was often quite different from what they were saying.

He leaves out "the boring parts."
He makes me laugh out loud.
Way better than television.

George wrote: "I've always thought that Leonard's books in general revolved around the distinction between amateurs and professionals on both sides of the law, and what happens when members of the former groups r..."

That's sort of what I couldn't put my finger on. There's allot of that in his books. Crooked cops, criminals trying to go good, etc. I've only read one maybe two of the westerns, and I noticed the same themes even in that.
Like I said earlier, I -like- the books...

I've always enjoyed Elmore Leonard novels mainly for the way he develops characters.

Often when one of Leonard's characters makes a first appearance Leonard intentionally misleads you as to what role they will play later as the plot develops.
Likeable types turn out to be vicious sociopaths;
unlikeable characters turn out to be the protagonist's salvation by the novel's end.

Secondary characters become primary to the resolution of the action described.

I also love how so often the bad guys' demise involves the underestimation of a cohort or the protagonist himself.

Kind of like in real life.

Mantan wrote: "I've always enjoyed Elmore Leonard novels mainly for the way he develops characters.

Often when one of Leonard's characters makes a first appearance Leonard intentionally misleads you as to what ..."

Great post, Mantan, and I agree. You put into words what I haven't been able to. Thanks for that.

I don't know if anyone here has read The Winter of Frankie Machine, by Don Winslow. I'm almost to the end, and while Winslow isn't Elmore Leonard, he comes close. Exquisite development of the protagonist.
The first line made me laugh out loud. "It's a lot of work being me."
That's Frankie the Machine thinking. And in short order Winslow shows you that it is, indeed, a lot of work being Frankie the Machine. To paraphrase Al Paccino in Godfather II ... Just when he thought he was out, they pull him back in.

Can there be a funny noir? If so, this is it.

Cathy wrote: "Great post, Mantan, and I agree. You put into words what I haven't been able to. Thanks for that. ..."


And thank you for that!

I read Savages by Don Winslow. I gave it 3 stars mostly because I hated the ending. My review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Mantan wrote: "I've always enjoyed Elmore Leonard novels mainly for the way he develops characters.

Often when one of Leonard's characters makes a first appearance Leonard intentionally misleads you as to what ..."

That's one of the major things Leonard does so well in comparison to many authors, by not dictating how we should feel about the characters. In a sense his writing reminds me of European cinema, where the characters appear without backstory and you have to determine their role by observing their actions.

I recently gave a thriller a 1-star review* because after a good start, someone picks up a human resources file on the protagonist and gives us the whole backstory in one big info dump.

More authors should follow Leonard's example in showing their character development...

*http://amsterdamassassin.wordpress.co...

Jim wrote: "I read Savages by Don Winslow. I gave it 3 stars mostly because I hated the ending. My review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Thanks, Jim. Interesting. Read your review but didn't read the spoiler, since I'll probably read the book. I confess to liking his quirky writing style and equally quirky characters.

The thing I liked about the Winter of Frankie M: there were no dull spots, no places where I felt the urge to skip ahead, maybe because Winslow's writing is very sharp. So yes, I'm hooked. But it's always good to hear another person's perspective.

Jim wrote: "I read Savages by Don Winslow. I gave it 3 stars mostly because I hated the ending. My review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."


Nice review.
I have been a Winslow fan for a couple of years now -especially California Fire And Life and The Winter of Frankie Machine but his last 3 just haven't worked for me.
The only thing worse than this novel is the Oliver Stone movie based on it (with co-screenplay credits going to Winslow).

Kills me that Winslow's such a big deal now while really great crime thriller authors (like David Corbett or Megan Abbott) fail to garner a similar size fan-base.

It is weird how some authors catch the public's eye & others don't.

"I have been a Winslow fan for a couple of years now -especially California Fire And Life and The Winter of Frankie Machine but his last 3 just haven't worked for me."
ditto

Guy wrote: ""I have been a Winslow fan for a couple of years now -especially California Fire And Life and The Winter of Frankie Machine but his last 3 just haven't worked for me."
ditto"
Thanks, Guy. I've only read Winter of Frankie M so far, will certainly try some of the others.

Hello Mantan, I agree with your comment on Megan Abbott. She's a terrific writer.

CF&L was a good one, but it's the only one I've read. I'm put off somewhat by the plot of Savages, but I might still read it. Winter of Frankie Machine is on my list, but it's a long list.

George wrote: "CF&L was a good one, but it's the only one I've read. I'm put off somewhat by the plot of Savages, but I might still read it. Winter of Frankie Machine is on my list, but it's a long list."

I hear ya, seems like my list grows every day!