Everything Booklikes & Leafmarks discussion

Hello all ,

I was invited by a friend to this group two days ago , and since then I am trying to understand why people are leaving ?

So Amazon bought Goodreads , site policy changed ? why is this in benefit of authors not readers ? how can this affect my reviews ? as a top Liberian how can this can affect me ?

I am sorry , but image is not clear and I need to understand .

Greetings Nile Daughter from the East Coast of the U.S.A.!

In answer to your question, please read the following weblink. (I think it will help you to understand why some Goodreads members have either decided to leave Goodreads altogether OR --- like me --- have decided to join Booklikes AND remain a Goodreads member (as I have been for the past 3 years).

http://profjulie.booklikes.com/post/4...


KOMET

Nile daughter wrote: "Hello all ,

I was invited by a friend to this group two days ago , and since then I am trying to understand why people are leaving ?

So Amazon bought Goodreads , site policy changed ? why is this..."

I don't know that people are leaving so much (although some are) as much as also getting a BookLikes site.

What started it was that Goodreads instead of just hiding negative reviews that were mostly about authors, deleted them without any warning. They also deleted shelves that had names they considered did not fit into their ToS. 21 people were affected. After that they decided they would tell people 2 days before they deleted anything. The only people who know are people who are active members of the Feedback group, although this new policy affects everyone. GR have elected not to tell the entire membership of the site.

Apparently anything negative (they don't mind praise) about an author is just irrelevant to a book review. Even if, as happened to one of the more prominent members of this group in the last week, an author 'requested' that they didn't write a review unless it was 5* gold.

There have also been threads on a site called Fiverr where people are selling Goodreads reviews, likes, listopia entries etc. some from multiple accounts for $5 per review, some will post the author's own reviews for them! Some of the people selling them are librarians. Goodreads is not doing anything at all about it unless presumably you can prove a review was paid for. In other words, if it helps the author sell books, then its fine.

So, quite a lot of people don't really like this high-handed approach that it is ok to punish reviewers who are reacting to badly-behaving authors who leave inflammatory comments on reviews they don't like, spam people sometimes for years on end, or complain about them elsewhere on the net. This is very author-centric.


The head of Goodreads is the head of the Kindle division of Amazon. Goodreads is now an integral part of the new Kindle. Amazon does not exist so people can discuss books, it exists only to sell them. Or anything. Authors produce product, you don't damage your manufacturing plant!

And reviewers, reviewers data is sold, they produce the objective reviews advertising copy and are also the target market for the product. Librarians are a vast unpaid staff that maintain the database and thereby increase Amazon's profits.

I think further actions by Amazon will include standardisation of shelf names, dis-allowing curse words and graphically sexual descriptions or gifs, not featuring books with overtly sexual titles (they just deleted a whole load of books from Amazon and the authors are not allowed to reupload them with different ones).

It won't be long before you will be able to sign into Goodreads with an Amazon login, the want-to-read shelf here and wish-list there will be synced and there goes your privacy, they will know by your clicks, that SunnyB on GR is really Jane Doe living at 34 Street Lane, Harbour, Mississippi or wherever. Even more valuable data to sell.

I also think that algorithms that calculate the position of reviews on book pages will be rejigged so that the featured ones will be from the favoured reviewers (ones that participate in Amazon's Vine program, or get a lot of publishers' ARCS or are popular among people who click through to purchase the books) rather than ones voted as popular by GR members.

In other words GR will become a lot more family-friendly, a lot more anodyne, a lot less about opinions and a lot more about selling books, especially on Kindle.

And if you haven't got a Kindle, I'm sure there will be special offers for GR members quite soon.

That's why I've got a BookLikes account. I'm maintaining both accounts for now, like Komet, depends on what happens in the future if I move entirely to BL.

I'm sorry that went on a bit lot, but to me this is a serious affair, this changing of the site from being for readers to being an Amazon marketplace for authors.

Sock Poppet Fishy Wishy wrote: "Nile daughter wrote: "Hello all ,

I was invited by a friend to this group two days ago , and since then I am trying to understand why people are leaving ?

So Amazon bought Goodreads , site policy..."

An excellent, concise explanation of the issues.

Well stated, Sock Puppet Fishy Wishy who has got me thinking of Monty Python's the Meaning of Life.

I agree that the site is changing from a book review site to a book marketing site. I feel its been going on for a couple of years now, one step at a time. Which is disappointing.

But the reason I am angry and have pulled my content and am starting to put my energy into another site is that GR isn't being HONEST with us about what they are doing.

They say one thing and do something else. They hide things from their membership, and they don't listen when people object. Its becoming increasingly clear every day that we are just here to be sold to, and what we think or want no longer matters.

Sock Poppet Fishy Wishy wrote: "Nile daughter wrote: "Hello all ,

I was invited by a friend to this group two days ago , and since then I am trying to understand why people are leaving ?

So Amazon bought Goodreads , site policy..."

5 stars!

Bunny wrote: "Its becoming increasingly clear every day that we are just here to be sold to, and what we think or want no longer matters. ..."

Yes absolutely. One thing you didn't get quite right, we are not just here to be sold to, we are here to be sold, everything about us they know. Selling data to advertising companies is very profitable, even more so when they know our real life names, addresses, friends and family on Facebook, what our occupations are, how old we are, our credit card details... And if you clicked from Goodreads on to a book on Amazon that you purchased, doesn't matter that your screen names and emails are different, they know who you are!

This is from Otis' message on Goodreads being sold to Amazon. To be fair, he does spell it out although it is couched in terms so that it seems to be beneficial to us, but when he says 'new features' he means things that make them more money which we might or might not like (UGB - remember? Although that was part of the build-up referred to by Bunny).

Will Amazon have access to my Goodreads data?

Yes, as a subsidiary of Amazon, we can share data as appropriate under our privacy policies. How does this impact you? Primarily in two ways:

* Amazon and Goodreads could use the data to look for ways to offer you a better service on one or both sites. For example, by providing you with personalized advertising based on your reading tastes (similar to the advertising we already have on Goodreads).
* Amazon and Goodreads could analyze the data to see what kinds of new features or services might be useful on one or both sites.

And


Will Goodreads now be more focused on being a site for authors?

We love having authors on Goodreads. But, we are a site that's focused on readers first. If there is a choice between what is best for readers and what is best for authors, we will always err on the side of readers.

Yeah, right.

I had put this on my update feed, not because I was looking for publicity, but input, how else people see things as changing here, now and in the future. (view spoiler)[I'm also going back to Petra X (for now) as I'm fed up with lovely new name and avatar being mocked by some people. You know who you are. May every fish you eat or meet forever be prized like Garum (hide spoiler)]

So you were hiding in plain sight? I can't believe I failed to identify you. Were there any clues? Oh, and I agree with your post but Booklikes may be too much for this old dog cat.

Petra X wrote: "Bunny wrote: "Its becoming increasingly clear every day that we are just here to be sold to, and what we think or want no longer matters. ..."

Yes absolutely. One thing you didn't get quite right,..."

Oh I know we are nice little units to be monetized, believe me. That's why i tanked my profile and set up an empty one that goes to a new email address after I read Otis and co's spin after the Amazon buyout. But the reason our data is being sold is so that companies can try to market to us so at the root of it all its still about trying to get us to buy goods and services. There are just many layers to the consumer hatchery and we get sold and remonetized and sold again at different stages along the way.

Standing ovation to both Petra and Bunny, with excellent summings-up.

It worries me a little when people say "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care". (I don't mean you, Nile daughter - you were, I believe asking how it does affect you rather than why you should be bothered.) They don't write the kind of reviews GR doesn't like; their shelves are all perfectly bland and generic; so? One person in one of my (former) groups said something along the lines of "don't like it? Leave."

I mean, I'm not directly affected by the government shut-down (yet). But strangely enough, I do care. A lot.

I wish I knew how things would progress here. GR is still being stupid, and continuing deletions (without warning, whatever they said before), and Big Brother tactics. I can't see it improving, sadly. My Booklikes page says I'm just looking around till GR does something else spectacularly stupid. I'm not leaving - but I have in my own mind at least resigned as a librarian, I will no longer review here, and will be gradually deleting the reviews I have up here, replacing them with a statement about where they went and why. (If a "review" is not about the book, but also not about the author, but is in fact about Goodreads, will they how fast will they delete it?)

We are here to be SOLD TO ev'time we use the NET. I send an email and mention PARIS > up pop hotels, bistros and airfares to Paris. ~~ There's far too much hysteria involved now in GR "stuff." ~~ Back to reading...methinks ppl have too much free time. Why not channel this energy ag the SWINE Republicans?

You think people here have too much hysteria about GR, and recommend taking up a strictly American problem, SWINE Republicans! LOL. Leaving aside the US-centrism (I'd rather go to Paris) there is a difference between doing nothing and being a sitting duck and being a moving target. I know which I'd rather be.

Sketchbook wrote: "We are here to be SOLD TO ev'time we use the NET. I send an email and mention PARIS > up pop hotels, bistros and airfares to Paris. ~~ There's far too much hysteria involved now in GR "stuff." ~~ B..."

'All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to remain silent', I probably didn't get it exactly right, but that's the gist of it. That & I hate censorship, I had already sent an email to Amazon on it when they started it, & diversified my book buy to getting from the publishers & independents.

I do agree with you on the politics, I've been protesting them probably as long as you've been alive, (I'm old). When I was way younger I used to say I wanted to be a protest sign when I grew up! ;-)

My philanthropic soup kitchen, where I serve champ daily at 5 p.m., is now prepping Fennel Stew. It's very American. We choose the menus.

I must say I'd come to dinner Sketch, if you didn't talk politics, or not much. Hell, I'd even bring some Eton mess, literally and politically figuratively too.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Ah, Petra X : Get out your punt and head north ! Perfect weather ...don't be waylaid in the Hamptons. (Hope, Lionel, and izzit : Charity?)

Sketchbook wrote: "We are here to be SOLD TO ev'time we use the NET. I send an email and mention PARIS > up pop hotels, bistros and airfares to Paris. ~~ There's far too much hysteria involved now in GR "stuff." ~~ B..."

Looks like you spend a decent amount of your free time here on Goodreads: member since 2010, 338 reviews. I think it's safe to say all of us in this group spend a decent amount of free time here, and that would be because we enjoy it. Goodreads is impinging upon many of its users' ability to enjoy the site. That's why people are, not hysterical, but angry, and concerned, and in some cases a little scared; people have made little virtual homes for themselves here, with friends and conversations they love, and the site's actions have enflamed some of those friends to the point that they have left or are leaving. Goodreads has deleted some of those conversations. If you couldn't care less, I envy you a little - but only a little. I think I feel more sorry for you, really.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Here's another summary if anyone is interested: http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...

Tracey, turning blue waiting for a sitewide announcement wrote: "Sketchbook wrote: "We are here to be SOLD TO ev'time we use the NET. I send an email and mention PARIS > up pop hotels, bistros and airfares to Paris. ~~ There's far too much hysteria involved now ..."

Never decent. Always indecent.

FYI given the long history of the word hysterical as a means to minimize or dismiss female concerns its maybe not the best choice of adjective here if you want to avoid offending people. My hackles got a little raised.

Sketchbook wrote: "Never decent. Always indecent..."

Heh. Then prepare for deletion by Goodreads ...

LOL.

Bunny wrote: "FYI given the long history of the word hysterical as a means to minimize or dismiss female concerns its maybe not the best choice of adjective here if you want to avoid offending people. My hackle..."

Hackles : You haven't reviewed any books.

I had six hundred books on this site, 512 with reviews, before I pulled my data.

I was a librarian. I was a moderator of eight groups.

I had been here for six years.

I've been on this site since August of 2007. I'm slowly phasing it out of my life, because I deserve better.

I'm starting to transition over to other websites and my own blog, because I am concerned with GR becoming nothing but an Amazon marketplace. That wasn't what I wanted when I joined GR a year ago.

It was fun while it lasted. I will miss it.

Step 1 - No more reviews.
Step 2 - No more star ratings.
Step 3 - No more adding books to any of my shelves.
Step 4 - Delete my account.

Sondheim:
"Good times and bum times, I've seen them all--
And I'm still here
Three cheers and damnit, c'est la vie,
And I'm still here "

Look what Amazon's doing, look/sound familiar! No doubt about where GR got it's new policy! This is from Tymber Dalton's/Lesli Richardson's blog:

http://leslirichardson.blogspot.com/2...

Amazon has had this policy since the start. It now owns GR. For more fun try xvideos dot com.

Susanna wrote: ""The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke"

Exactly!

Here is the latest announcement from Kara in the Feedback thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Wow, only 2 weeks later, and still no site anouncement. Bravo, GR, bravo. (golf clap)

Sketchbook wrote: "Sondheim:
"Good times and bum times, I've seen them all--
And I'm still here
Three cheers and damnit, c'est la vie,
And I'm still here ""

Sondheim has all the answers doesn't he? Poor Elaine Stritch sang this until suddenly she was gone...

Her voice went. She's still here. Well, in Birmingham, Mich. Yvonne de Carlo "introduced" the song in Follies, April, 1971.

Almost two weeks later for a response (I bet they have interesting stats on the number of reviews pulled, loss of useful shelves like genre names, etc.).

I'm not sure the FAQs say much more than already said by Kara on feedback thread, except that that word "unhelpful" sent an icy cold chill up my spine.

An omen that the "helpful" up/down review voting that so gamed the amazon customer reviews is coming. (cue theme music from Jaws movie)

Sketchbook wrote: "Her voice went. She's still here. Well, in Birmingham, Mich. Yvonne de Carlo "introduced" the song in Follies, April, 1971."

De Carlo's version is the best. I thought Elaine Paige mangled it in the recent revival. The woman who sang Strich's other song, Broadway Baby, was terrific. Stritch never really had much a voice but she was quite a looker.

Debbie R. - site-wide announcement of new policy+FAQs needed no matter how few members effected - wrote: "...An omen that the "helpful" up/down review voting that so gamed the amazon customer reviews is coming. ..."

Past tense, Debbie? Tsk, tsk... ;-)

Gary wrote: "Sketchbook wrote: "Her voice went. She's still here. Well, in Birmingham, Mich. Yvonne de Carlo "introduced" the song in Follies, April, 1971."

De Carlo's version is the best. I thought Elaine Pai..."

A Looker?...well...in that case, so was Merman. ~~ De Carlo, yup. The CD of the orig cast is super. Stritch didn't have much - couldn't sing or dance - but after Company, she suddenly had a cult audience. I saw her solo at the Public Thea. and found her likeable and disposable.

Jeannette wrote: "Here is the latest announcement from Kara in the Feedback thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1..."

Just discovered we can actually flag this post, just like member posts. Should we all flag it as inappropriate and inundate them with protest-y comments?

Sarah wrote: "Just discovered we can actually flag this post, just like member posts. Should we all flag it as inappropriate and inundate them with protest-y comments? ..."

LOL :-D

Hey, Gary and I are having a conversation....(Sssh! LOL) ~~ Stritch is now 88.

Sarah wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Here is the latest announcement from Kara in the Feedback thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1..."

Just discovered we can actually flag this post, just like member posts... Should we all flag it as inappropriate and inundate them with protest-y comments? "

Awesome.

Wow , such a response since yesterday !Thank you all for sharing your opinions .. I understand more now .

Thank you Petra X for the detailed explanation . by the way ;I kept re-reading posts for a while to figure out who is Sock Poppet Fishy Wishy that everyone is quoting :)


Just for the record , I belong to members whose the majority of our books is written in"Arabic" , most of these books' data interned GR manually , the Liberian work is huge in such area . when Amazon pulled out the first time, the Arabic library was not affected , yet we helped in saving other books .(when GR was bought by Amazon ...a big question mark popped out !)

Sadly I am used to be be ignored by GR administration , being not the main target or the main market of this website make your demands at the tail of the list .

Yet , I love this universal face of this website , I love my activities in many groups here more than any other activities . I made friends from everywhere and held conversations I never thought I could have , I learned and understood more and helped others to get closer too . exchanging culture is the most valuable thing I get in GR .

There is so much to digest in here ,and so many issues to sort out since I can get now how the website is changing .I guess keeping both accounts seems a good start and see what BL can give me.

Thank you all :)

I've just seen this for the first time in place of a Goodreads friend's username:

[Name Redacted By Goodreads Because Irrelevant to Review]

How crazy!

Do we even need to get our usernames approved by the authorities these days?