⚔Irunía⚔ > Status Update

If the woman is raped for money, I would call this human trafficking. If the woman offers a service, gets paid for it, and is not forced by anyone to do so, this as prostitution. There is a grey area as well, and it can vary from country to country. There are definitely women who get paid for sex without anyone forcing them to. I've met them.

It’s men AND women exploiting mostly children and vulnerable young women for profit so I for one cringe at anything related to “sex work.”

I don’t consider prostitution rape as long as its a willing (of age) person.

Tengo opiniones encontradas porque he escuchado las dos partes sobre quienes están a favor y en contra. Acá en mi país no es un delito y es medio un lío eso pero algunos lo consideran un trabajo y de hecho hay una lucha para que se reconozca como un trabajo como cualquier otro y muchos entienden la prostitución como un servicio no una violación porque se supone que ellas estan “dispuestas” y como dijo alguien arriba, eso se consideraria trata. Por supuesto, detrás hay una realidad distinta, muchas mujeres se acercan o terminan en la prostitución por problemas económicos y ser el único sosten de su familia, muchas no eligen la prostitución, sino que son obligadas por sus condiciones socioeconómicas.
Por otro lado, muchas de las que dicen que está bien la prostitución tienen la suerte de podés elegir sus clientes 🤪 y esa no es la realidad de todas. Aunque con legalizar la prostitución se plantea que se puede cambiar eso porque se cree que el problema son las condiciones físicas-de espacio- en la que se da y el estigma social que hay. E incluso que las trabajadoras sexuales puedan tener aportes jubilatorios, obras sociales, acceder al sistema de salud etc.

PEEEERO en mi opinión siento que es algo muy complejo desde ambas partes y no puedo decir que me parece o bien o mal :/

Naksed wrote: "It’s men AND women exploiting mostly children and vulnerable young women for profit so I for one cringe at anything related to “sex work.”"

I'm glad I'm not the only one who cringes at this so called variety of "work". This euphemism normalises sexual exploitation, which is the most appropriate definition of prostitution.

Flor ❁ wrote: "Tengo opiniones encontradas porque he escuchado las dos partes sobre quienes están a favor y en contra. Acá en mi país no es un delito y es medio un lío eso pero algunos lo consideran un trabajo y ..."

Thank you so much for this insightful comment. You described very interesting points for and against, I will express my opinion on the matter in more detail a bit later

Thank you guys for expressing your opinion, I'm really interested in how different people, esp women, perceive prostitution

So, here is my take on the prostitution and why it should NOT be described in such regular, innocent and sweet terms as "work" and "service" 🤪

What can be perceived as work??
1) work/profession is not stigmatized, i.e. people of ANY profession are not discriminated against only on the basis of their involvement in the profession.

Now let me tell you that even in countries where prostitution IS decriminalised, it is the prostitutes who are being humiliated, marginalised and rejected by the society (not pimps and clients 🤪) Raise a hand who wants their daughters/sisters/friends to be involved in the sex industry???ha

2) You can quit your job at any time out of your own free will.

Do I need to comment on that? The free choice is a myth and a privilege of prob 5% of prostitutes. Consider prostitution normal because of the little minority of prostitutes who can actually choose their clients and earn good money? It is something that terrifies me about the 21st progressive century . I've read a lot of prostitutes' stories and Im not exagerrating by saying that I ve been depressed for DAYS after realising how our CIVILISED POST INDUSTRIAL societies perceive women's body as a commodity and a product. The prostitutes' clients don't see human beings in prostitutes, just saying👏

3) Work does NOT lead to irreparable health damage;

Look at the statistics. The percentage of women suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (spoiler: it's higher than the percentage of military veterans suffering from it, just think abt it), is FUCKING ASTOUNDING. You better take a look at the health problems (psychical and mental) these poor children, teenagers and women have to endure after they get sucked into the industry.

4) Work provides opportunities for development and career growth;

Ehhhhh?? Opportunity to be raped and abused is the only opportunity women get in this "profession" . The statistics show how 90% of women would quit if not for the terrible financial and other circumstances of their lives.
5) Work does not violate basic human rights.

The majority of prostitutes become involved in prostitution as a result of poverty, racism (so MANY of them are immigrants) , child abuse, sexism. Average age - 13-17 and mostly females (talk about "freedom of choice")
Many sex workers find it difficult to get out of business - they are held back by threats, violence or financial circumstances - the inability to "buy their freedom" from the brothel owners. Yep, slavery still exists but no one gives a damn.

Will the abolition of prostitution lead to more rape? Will women become even more afraid for their safety??
Exactly the opposite. Research has shown that men only buy sex because they can. The legalization of prostitution promotes acts of violence against women. A signal is sent to society that women are a commodity. For example, the state of Nevada, where prostitution is legalized, has one of the highest rape rate of any other US state.

Anyways, isn't this myth of prostitution preventing more rape sweet as hell? Let "bad" women pay for the safety of "normal" "decent" women?

Now why I believe that sex with a prostitute is rape in the overwhelming majority of cases. One prostitute said: "What is rape for others, is normal for us". Sweet right? Also sounds like HER choice☺️

The prostitution as a concept contradicts the very definition of SEXUAL CONSENT. Let's take a look at the definition on wikipedia:
"consent means…the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in sexual activity" without abuse or exploitation of "trust, power or authority", coercion or threats.[5] Consent can also be revoked at any moment"

WITHOUT ABUSE, guys, without explotation of authority. CONSENT CAN BE REVOKED.
If you don't choose your partner, the type of activities or timing, this is not sex. This is rape. The threat by pimps, the authority of clients w money. They pay money and you don't get to choose anything. And if you do, you're highly likely the heroine of a book/film. 😉 Also let's not forget the average age of involvement shall we.

A person's sexuality is part of his personality, thus it canNOT be a COMMODITY or service.

The main thing is that any sex without the sincere desire of the participants is violence. And in a situation where money is paid for sex, and when money is the only motivation to "agree" to this sex (and for most people engaged in prostitution that's true) , such sex is VIOLENCE.

Now let's remember that sex cannot be equated to service.
Prostitutes can participate actively in the process but they also kinda don't have to. They don't need to do anything but lie there and let men rape them. They can easily be drunken, under the influence of drugs and no one cares. Not the client. Not her pimp. And certainly not our civilised society that sees nothing fundamentally wrong in buying a woman's body for use and abuse.

In any kind of profession, employees require experience and skills. Now let's remember how this type of clients look for young, inexperienced and "new" girls. It baffles me how using a woman's body can be considered "service". That's so disgusting. God I'm really triggered just writing abt it.

And the last thing I wanted to say to people who might say that we cannot avoid prostitution. That it's something the society (men) cannot live without. I already pointed out that the normalisation of "selling body" encourages rape culture because, surprising as it may sound, prostitution contradicts every aspect of the consent culture. It is not about fucking choice.

When buying so called " sexual services", men are guided by the society's acceptance of their "physiological needs of men" that gotta be satisfied (no matter how many people need to suffer to accomplish that). Have you ever heard that "they cannot live without sex"😏😏😏 because "they are men". I have, quite a few times. Therefore, someFUCKINhow, sex for money has quite logically turned into their natural right. 💵🤑

I strongly believe that at schools (like in the Scandinavian countries) teenagers (esp future "clients") need to be told that buying someone else's body is NOT OKAY. SEX IS NOT A BASIC NECESSITY such as food or sleep, HELLO. Sexual consent needs to become a thing AND prostitution is the antonym of sexual consent.

Please don't tell me about the women who CHOSE this. I don't give a fuck about 3-5% of privileged women who can choose their clients and make money for leading beautiful lifestyle. The majority of them you may come across in films and in books, but not in real life.

the Nordic model of prostitution forever 💯💯💯
There, I've said my piece.

(I'm humbly apologising for spamming my friends ' feed) 🙏🙏🙏

That's a really controversial subject that you've raised here, with many opposing views but I have to say that I agree with the points you made. I'm against calling prostitution "sex work" because, as you've pointed out, it doesn't have characteristics inherent to the definition of "work" nor the prerequisites to become one. Unfortunately, prostitutes in countries where this type of thing is legalized don't live better.
It's terrible how even bodies can be bought and sold and clients are literally invisible while factual victims of sexual exploitation receive all the criticism and contempt

If an adult woman/man chose to sell their body for money, I don't view it as rape. But I dond't see it as job neither. I can't believe a person would do so if she has other alternatives, it's a blow to one's dignity.

Velline, yep, that’s the problem:" I can't believe a person would do so if she has other alternatives, it's a blow to one's dignity".
The majority of them as the statistics shows didn't have other alternatives OR were involved against their will. More than that, the average age - 14 years, so the consent is not even possible at that age.
I respect any opinion so I won't argue on what can or cannot be considered as rape. I stand on the belief that consent cannot be bought. If there are women who enjoy having sex w different men for money, have the choice w whom to have sex - yep, that’s their choice. But that's not the case for the majority of prostitutes. They don't choose clients and if they are paid, they are supposed to let a customer do anything so for me it's violence

Persephone wrote: "Also I’m not into writing much but I have a friend who sweeps the streets. She doesn’t get much respect, she can’t quit and her career options are nil. So it’s not as simple as a checklist :)"


About women being forced to do it - that's not "another" thing, as you nicely put it, since we are talking about the sex industry. The statistics say that the majority of prostitutes are young girls, immigrants and vulnerable people in general. So being forced is not "another" thing. It is very much a thing when it comes to prostitution. 14 being an average age of involvement already hints oh not so subtly that the whole profession is abt our choice right? . If a woman wants to fuck men for money and she has the opportunity to choose her customers, time and type of action - great for her. I'm super glad she found her niche. But that's the EXCEPTION to the rule. The majority of us don't wanna get fucked by a dozen of men every second day of our lives 😉Also funny how you give analogy to your friend who sweeps the streets and compare such A NORMAL LOL (I cannot even with your logic, sorry) JOB to prostitution. Does your friend have a risk of being severely abused and damaged both psycically and mentally at her work?Does she has a high chance of developing post traumatic stress syndrome that SO MANY prostitutes suffer from? Do people perceive her as a piece of meat good for nothing else but riding someone' dick ? Does she has to experience the critism of our tolerant, civilised society? Does she have a brothel owner threats that prevent her from quitting her job and changing her life?

I don't know abt your country, but in mine people who sweep streets are neither marginalised nor do they have to hide their "profession" from relatives and friends. That comparison is so irrelevant I cannot even.

Prostitution in THE MAJORITY OF CASES is not abt choice, it's abt poverty, sexism and racism.
Young immigrant girls constitute the majority of prostitutes, what other info do we need to realize the truthfulness of this simple thought?

So if you don't mind the fact that 90% of the women involved in the industry suffer and would quit if not for the dire circumstances /threats/coercion in the name of some illusional freedom a few women obviously NEED to have to sell their bodies(freedom is such an interesting concept), I don't even know what to say. How many of your friends would want such a freedom? I have none, but that's obviously not enough to draw conclusions.

We, people, sell our services. As teachers, translators, doctors, "Street sweepers". Body is not a service neither is it a product. The concept of selling women's body is disgusting not due to some moral or religious reasons but due to the risks, lack of anything good that comes out of it and the false assumption that consent can be bought. Prostitution, simply enough, is about women who are forced by different circumstances/people and the normalisation of viewing themselves as products too to put their life at risk and to ruin their mental /psychical health.

Why such a normal "profession" has so few male "workers"??? Is it because the profession is all about the freedom of choice...

I do have to agree it's not as simple as checklist tho 😉
And as I've said, I respect any opinion. If you want women to have that kind of choice, if YOU want to have that kind of choice, be my guest.
I'm a bit baffled by how women don't see anything wrong with it and say it's abt choice despite literally every research proving otherwise but whatever. 👌

God the person I was responding to deleted her messages so now I feel schizophrenic talking with myself lmaooo😂😂 whatever. Geez😂

I feel the same way as you, this quote you put summarize it easily “Prostitution in THE MAJORITY OF CASES is not abt choice, it’s abt poverty, sexism and racism.”
If there are strict regulations for people not being able to sell their organs (unless it’s on the blck market, but it’s pretty uncommon), why the law is so relaxed on people selling their bodies that way?
It makes me sad for the people that have to do it because it’s the only way they can survive in this world ruled by capitalism and misoginy...

⚔Irunía⚔ wrote: "God the person I was responding to deleted her messages so now I feel schizophrenic talking with myself lmaooo😂😂 whatever. Geez😂"

Haha! No you’re not! I deleted them cause... I don’t really like arguing and I was afraid of it spiralling in a bad direction :)

Your opinions are nice to read and you didn’t take offence so... thanks for the chat 😄

And sorry for deleting. I overstress sometimes 🍷

⚔Irunía⚔ wrote: "God the person I was responding to deleted her messages so now I feel schizophrenic talking with myself lmaooo😂😂 whatever. Geez😂"

LOL You're not talking to yourself. I appreciate your post and your passion. You put in a detailed analytical way what I was too lazy to expand on :)

Lucia, bravo!! Your analogy is very very fitting for the occasion. Freedom is important but let's remember that we are not free to kill or to rob or to randomly sell our organs. And for a good reason. It is not a violation of our freedom, it's understandably the necessary measures to ensure the safety of everyone that have nothing to do with morality or religion. You have a choice:to kill or not to kill. If you do take someone's life or rob them or whatever, you get punished. The same should be true for the prostitutes' customers and pimps. They hurt and abuse women, some of whom understand that they are abused, some only realize it so much later (thank you our mysoginistic society), but their lives will never be the same after, that's for sure. No one gets fucked by hundreds and thousands ****** without consequences for their health.
You've, rightly so, pointed out that prostitution is about survival and coercion.

P. S. I am so happy you share my point of view, it breaks my heart when women don't realize how terribly mysoginistic our society that justifies prostitution is. I mean I get that men will always be in favour of exploiting women's body, but when the main risk group, women, fail to realize how much suffering to their own "kind" this so called profession brings, how it's not even for a sec abt our choice or desires I just 😭😭😭 The films that depict prostitution as a social lift (made by men of course) as well as books written by men or mysoginistic (or just ignorant) women really shape people's minds in such a way that criminals who receive "sexual service" are normalised while the victims (aka prostitutes) are marginalised, demonized, shown in a bad light. Since so many people believe that the prostitutes "chose" it, what they actually experience in the "profession" is viewed as OK... Even the majority of liberal feminists are supporting its legalisation so sometimes it's really confusing, the world we live in.

I believe in the Nordic model and I pray for this model to be adopted in EVERY COUNTRY of the world (sorry I'm rambling but I truly feel bad for all these women)

Persephone wrote: " Haha! No you’re not! I deleted them cause... I don’t really like arguing and I was afraid of it spiralling in a bad direction :)
Your opinions are nice to read and you didn’t take offence so... thanks for the chat 😄
And sorry for deleting. I overstress sometimes 🍷"

Ahhh, ok, I gotchu. You needn't worry abt everything spiralling out of control tho. Seriously😂😉
I love discussing different contradictory topics, not simply for the sake of arguing or proving how wrong people with opinions different from mine are but for the sake of checking whether my points are truly valid and logical or not and of course for the sake of satisfying my damn curiosity 😅 and understanding better the nature of certain things.

My mind is very flexible and I may change opinion IF someone else' points are more logical than mine. Also I almost never get mad while arguing, esp at women (I'm a sexist lol) who express clearly patriarchal views (in my opinion of course lol) since 1) historically women are main victims and not exploitators 2) women in every, even most "feministic" countries are still vulnerable to enduring patriarchal and *surprise - surprise*very convenient for men exclusively 🤒 ideas.

I just wanted to tell you that if you really want to understand the nature of prostitution and revise or just probably question, you know, your views concerning" the freedom of choice" in prostitution or how it will be taken away if God forbid it's abolished one day, you should read the prostitutes ' (or even porno actresses', they are interesting in that regard too) interviews, stories and analyse them. Read in more detail abt the sexual consent, the definition of "work/service" etc.

I saw your messages about prostitution being this regular type of job with taxes to pay and rules to abide by (what an unrealistic hea lol) and abt the freedom of choice "taken away" from women who will be refused this, I'm afraid to say such a blasphemy, "privilege" or "right" to sell their bodies.

Again, just CANNOT HELP MYSELF LMAO SORRY and not point out that if we go by the legal definition (I don't know whether you knew this or not), the customer who refused to pay for sex with a prostitute , can and will be charged for RAPE. Legally. Like officially. You may google it. Which brings me to the main point of my Ted talk no one wanted but got anyway: PROSTITUTION IS NOT A JOB BECAUSE *surprise* THE CLIENT DOES NOT PAY FOR A SERVICE (as so many women like to think because it's easier to live in a world where women can be bought and not raped, apparently) , THE CUSTOMER PAYS FOR A CONSENT TO COMMIT A SEXUAL ACT. Punto. Consent is being bought (I'm crying cuz it sounds so oxymoronic, isn't that obvious?if you have to pay for a consent, it's not a consent anymore lol), not the sexual service. Customers don't buy the service, they buy the consent.

If we go by your definition, any man can put a gun to your head and say that he wants to fuck you for 10 dollars (improbable, but whatever) . You, naturally, will be forced to give your consent. He will do his deed, even pay you for ur services and then what? Will it still not be rape?? Or will it be rape only because you're not a prostitute? You gave your consent, you got paid. The consent that have been bought or coerced out of a person or whatever contradicts the definition of the word...
The prostitutes (ok, 90% of them) don't have the choice to refuse the payment for their "consent" (they're coerced).

Someone at your work MAY ask you,for instance, to bring a customer coffee (it's not the part of your job, for example, and you may refuse but you still won't view it like smth degrading or bad, no? just not the part of ur working responsibilities ) but imagine that your boss tells you to fuck the same customer for money, what ur reaction will be? Do you still think it's a normal job? Won't you find even the suggestion degrading?

This mythical woman who is ready to fuck dozens of guys almost every day (it's part of her job, lol, no?) and live her hea belongs mostly to fiction, not reality. At the same time, the opportunity such a woman has to choose her customers contradicts the definition of work, tbh, and sounds more like a hobby which brings you some money. Anyways, if such a woman does exist, she can choose the number of clients, make a selection, she is not afraid for her own life or for the lives of her children, not afraid of starvation and death in case of her refusal to provide services or whatever,
the customers still should BE CRIMINALISED (not this woman) because it's the 21st century, women and their bodies are not the goods to be bought and sold and taken advantage of, capitalism as ruthless as it may appear, is about selling services and not about selling the part of your identity (body is def a key part of your identity as well as your sexuality, ask any psychologist).

P. S. I don't know whether you read this message or not but I genuinely hope that one day, if not today, you'll agree with at least some of the things I said.
Women are the only people who are able to change other women's lives for the better. And this "better" starts with realising how fucked up some shit women experience nowadays is not normal...

Hope you have a wonderful day and not overstress too much :)

Naksed wrote: " ⚔Irunía⚔ wrote: "God the person I was responding to deleted her messages so now I feel schizophrenic talking with myself lmaooo😂😂 whatever. Geez😂"

LOL You're not talking to yourself. I appreciate..."

I'm really really glad to hear that, Naksed:) I

It’s the oldest profession. I would say that yes, sometimes women have little choice in the matter. But there’s always the other side of the coin, those that do it willingly. Check out the Bunny Ranch in Las Vegas, (it’s been so long it might be closed) but those girls are pretty happy. There was a docuseries on hbo.

I don't think you can definitely call prostitution an industry that allows men to rape women. I think that's way too broad. I'd also that it is damn hard work and given that two of my best friends in NYC turned out to be Call Girls (high end prostitutes), I was eventually let behind the curtain after I realised what their real professions were. One of those two girls was an heiress from a very wealthy and prominent southern family - no, she wasn't a troubled kid. No she didn't get wrapped up in partying or in drugs. No, she wasn't a nympho. She made a choice - her reasons are her own and since I'm not the judgemental type, I never attached a label or a bias to what she did. But she, and the other I mentioned (who was her best friend) very much called their own shots. On top of which, they had armed protection, chauffeurs, men had to go through private, vetted recommendations and if either decided to turn and walk out of a session, the man got really no say. Was it work? Hell yes! I don't really feel like going into it further here but in that scenario, in their cases, it did not constitute men being able to rape by paying. So many clients actually were seeking mental relief as much as physical. Certainly the physical was present but it's much more complex than that. However, prostitution runs the gamut from street walker to hooker to escort to Call Girl and while many would say 'what's the difference since it all boils down to one single profession - prostitution', it actually really does make a difference. A street walker, and I used to see sooo many late at night coming home with friends from clubs way on the west side - those women get into cars with men to go down on them for a $20. There is no vetting, there is no security, there is definitely no respect. I seriously doubt a single man that cruises past women with their crotches almost hanging out - outcasts from society - see them as anything more than meat. The street walker in turn, gets into a car with someone that could be a perverse father of four, a working Joe whose just looking to get off or a serial killer AND if she has anyone watching out for her, it's a pimp. That's one helluva a hard, grim and often dangerous reality. So without going further, I look at 'prostitution' the same way I look at sexuality - it is not something one can slap a singular label on. There are too many shades from the darkest to the seemingly 'lightest' - it contains the full spectrum just like society does from the haves to the have nots. And as soon as that is present, all things are not equal. But streetwalker or Call Girl - it is most definitely work. It takes too damn much out of you.

Postscript- here's a prime example of why it's so hard to put into a box: a very prominent head coach for a pro athletic team - a guy everyone knew, after highly stressful play off games, he use to hire two girls. They would show up at the hotel room, he would strip down to his boxers and get on the bed. One girl would sit on either side - neither ever touched him. They would talk to him for a little while and then bind his wrists to the bed and leave. For the 3-4 hours they were gone, they were getting paid top dollar. They would return, talk him down, untie him and leave. Why would he pay thousands of dollars to Call Girls for seemingly nothing - not even getting off? The guy was so high profile and was carrying a sports franchise for owners and dealing with handling the egos and skills of huge sports figures and his job was to deliver championships. He ALWAYS had to be in control, he always had to come up with the plays, he always had to deliver. But after playoffs, by being bound by people he trusted, people who were discreet, he relinquished all power and all that stress he carried all season would eventually leave him and become manageable. And that was worth all the money in the world to him. So it's really one of those topics where YMMV.

@Irunia Thanks for taking the time. I read your post. I still disagree :)

@Jade Good points.

Jade wrote: "I don't think you can definitely call prostitution an industry that allows men to rape women. I think that's way too broad. I'd also that it is damn hard work and given that two of my best friends ..."

Hiii Jade thank you for expanding on your points!!! It was really interesting to read since you have a real life experience of interacting with high-profile prostitutes themselves...
I don't really feel like arguing with everything you said because 1) you operate with the data provided by the "elite" and more importantly privileged prostitutes who may quit/choose/are guarded /come from money yada yada and I operate with the statistics. 2) I already discussed in other posts how far prostitution stands from ur regular work and how unwanted sex for money hardly may be associated with such nice and important phrases like choice and sexual consent.

My main questions to people who defend the definition of prostitution as " hard work" and NOT the sexual exploitation (which is exactly what makes this hard and terrible for women) are the following?

Why will not a single prostitute out there put prostitution on her resume? (we are talking about countries with legalized prostitution) why? :)
Why according to numerous research 9 out of 10 want to get out? Why:) Hard work doesn't leave you scarred for life lol, doesn't marginalise you, doesn't objectify you, does involve certain skills and FAVOURS experience.

Which brings me to my main point: why defend something so harmful and degrading for women? So that first world women with numerous life opportunities had the freedom choice = selling their bodies ? I insist on selling body and not providing services. He buys the consent to use her body (vagina, rectum, mouth, and breasts), not a service: he is renting the use of her body. While he’s using her, she has to pretend she’s enjoying it, no matter what she’s thinking, wanting or feeling. Pretense is an integral part of prostitution since clients hardly want to feel they rape a woman who doesn't really want them lol

The thing that really troubled me in your comment is you sincerely believing that some prostitutes indeed are perceived as "meat" while others (like your friends) are not. That's funny. You see, the only real difference between your friends and ordinary call girls lies the treatment they get NOT THE ATTITUDE. Prostitution promotes sexual objectification of women thus the male clients are encouraged to see women as "meat". The decent treatment shown to ur friends IS FORCED and ENSURED, lol, because they are (or one of them, dunno) rich, certainly privileged women from the 1st world country who are GUARDED and who had a lot of options, prob tried them but made this interesting choice.

The majority of male customers think along those lines:
“She was just like a piece of meat… I thought I’ve paid so I better fuck her hard! I decided to put the legs on my shoulders and I was pumping hard!”
That's the attitude prostitution as "profession" encourages by normalising selling female body for a rent.
His attitude won't magically change if he earns enough money to hire an elite prostitute (he will simply be scared af to do anything that is abuse to us but somehow ok for prostituted women, since, you know, they get money to pretend they like any disgusting shit being done to them)
The practical realities of prostitution are incompatible with ANY person’s absolute legal right to reject sexual advances and activity FOR ANY OR NO REASON AT ALL. I cannot stress it enough how your friend is lucky to have the background she has and the privileges the majority or other legal and illegal prostitute lack.

BUT At this point I've already realised that women who hardly have any probability of being coerced into prostitution will always defend the freedom of choice for a very small percentage of women on the planet who really ,sincerely WANT,dream of becoming a prostitute:)

Please don't tell me there are queues of women who want to have sex with up to 20 strangers a day. Please. Your friend is an exception, tho I'm really happy she's found her niche in life. I'm absolutely for decriminalisation of prostituted women, like in the nordic model.

The next bothersome thing you mentioned in your post is a sweet little justification of men who come for emotional more than psychical relief from the stress. Lol. You actually got me dead w this comment. 😭💀 Do only men need to use other people's bodies to get stress release?? And the main question IS THIS "PROFESSION" THAT PROVIDES STRESS RELEASE for men and ruin women's health really worth defending????

Now, let’s notice who does the buying and who is bought and sold.
The gendered nature of prostitution is conspicuous. So while, as you've so nicely put it, men achieve stress release fucking women for money (let me remind 9 out of 10 of prostitutes want to quit) according to the studies, 68% of women in prostitution met the criteria for PTSD. This is a similar prevalence to that seen in combat veterans BUT GEEZ I CANNOT EVEN with this statistics because in case of COMBAT veterans the percentage is LOWER (20-30%).
You say HARD WORK I say SEXUAL EXPLOITATION that ruins lives to satisfy men's need for mental and psychical "relief" they are obviously unable to achieve by not making advances on highly likely desperate, vulnerable women. Sorry but hard work doesn't imply ptsd. Abuse and traumatic experience imply ptsd.

So, I keep wondering, why do so many people willingly ignore the results of studies and statistics that clearly demonstrate how toxic, damaging and ruining prostitution (and the concepts its existence is based on) for female population is. Why so many try to justify men hiring the women's bodies for the use? THE clients are men. Women need stress release TOO but they find ways to achieve it without traumatising young girls, teenagers, vulnerable women and even boys.
You say the data may vary. I say that the data is ALARMING, the "job" is dangerous, it involves unwanted sex and different kinds of abuse, the statistics is TERRIFYING but apparently men's comfort is more important. Women who really have freedom of choice and the opportunity to opt for anything are more important than the ones who will never be given ANY choice .
If some woman wants to sell her body, whatever tickles your pickle, but customers have to be criminalised because 9 OUT OF 10 " sex workers" want out but they cannot get out and I believe them.

Again, I totally get yours and Persephone 's position:) the statistics probably doesn't make it evident how much suffering tolerant attitude to prostitutes' customers, pimps and anyone exploiting prostitutes causes while individual examples, esp from rl friends, of the women who got the privilege to willingly choose this kind of activity are, obviously, more convincing.

You say that "There are too many shades from the darkest to the seemingly 'lightest' - it contains the full spectrum just like society does from the haves to the have nots." 68% of prostitutes suffer from PTSD, 9 out of 10 prostitutes want out, half of them got involved being underage, even the" elite" and legal ones you mentioned gotta hide their "profession", every prostitute runs the risk of being killed, tortured and severely abused. So, the question is, is there enough light in prostitution( that is based on sexism, poverty and their acceptance) to justify that kind of darkness? Is men's right to rent a female body worth passing these things off? :)

⚔Irunía⚔ wrote: "Jade wrote: "I don't think you can definitely call prostitution an industry that allows men to rape women. I think that's way too broad. I'd also that it is damn hard work and given that two of my ..."

I agree with most of what you said, I just want to add that this isn't limited to male predators, there are female predators out there who have no qualms exploiting children or persons younger and more vulnerable than themselves for sexual gratification and/or profit. That includes women exploiting their own children or female relatives, selling them into prostitution and trafficking and slavery. For every pimp, there is a madam!

About the supposedly rich, privileged, high class women who sell their bodies and favors, professional high class courtesans have been around in every culture and in every segment of history, and I would say the majority of them still don't have choice and real consent and in the end, their lives turn out more negatively than positively, once they have lost their looks and appeal, and if they have not wisely invested their earnings. Yes, they may be better protected from trafficked children or women who are tortured and forced into brothels from which they will never emerge, because they have to repay the traffickers who smuggled them into the new country for a "better life" and then get stuck there til they age out, get sick, or die. But what is the LONG TERM physical and emotional cost of degrading yourself in exchange for a designer bag or the tuition for college or a paid-for apartment. They may tell themselves in the moment they are living the high life but I wonder if they would encourage their daughters and little sisters to pursue this lucrative so-called business. Which brings us to the female predators who would indeed use and exploit others of their gender without any qualms. I prefer to think the majority of women would not fit into the category but I don't have access to statistics like you do.

Naksed, thank you for your comment. To be honest I didn't really pay attention to the fact that there are many female predators out there too even though in a few films I watched, which featured brothels, they were indeed owned by madams. After you pointed it out I read a little bit about some "famous" madams and quite a few of them (or prob the majority of them in general) were once prostitutes themselves. Which really astounded me because for someone who saw and experienced what prostitution is from the inside, they demonstrate the kind of ruthlessness I don't normally expect from women.

P. S. I am SO happy to know that you don't perceive prostitution as freedom of choice, emancipation, sexual liberty, "work like any other" or whatever else it is sometimes called.

Hoooow am I just seeing this update now??