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Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series) Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)
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Phi
Phi is 31% done
郑樱桃居然翻译成Cherry Zhen吗。。。
Dec 05, 2025 12:23PM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Phi
Phi is 30% done
Sorry but I can't think of a single person who would translate 清明 to "pure brightness". This is such ridiculous translation lmao
Dec 04, 2025 05:26PM 2 comments
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Phi
Phi is 26% done
The translations of cited texts are so unserious LMAO
Dec 04, 2025 04:38PM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Phi
Phi is 10% done
Indeed the extent of agency exercised by the dan actors is debated because are they truly completely a reflextion of literati's sexual taste
Nov 10, 2025 04:39PM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Phi
Phi is 8% done
I wonder if author will address the gender-nonconformality or transness of the dan-s, which is nonconsensual gnc in many cases of course
Nov 10, 2025 03:32PM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 166 of 252
What? I'm done? Over? And in the end one of her topics is "The literati can by no means be said to be marginal to Chinese culture and society, although clearly they were a numerical minority when compared to the farming population." Then maybe the farming population represents the majority of chinese culture better than the literati and her few is screwed. Anyway, this is over and I think she failed miserably.
Oct 16, 2020 11:19AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 165 of 252
Considered that she devotes more than 1.5 pages (more than to any other topic) of her conclusion to basically dismiss the notion of Volpp that late Ming and Qing China were not so tolerant of homosexuality, I think Volpp must have touched a nerve here and makes me wonder whether the author realizes the flaws in reasoning, for one: if so accepted why is this "homoeroticism" relegated to the lowest of the low?
Oct 16, 2020 11:17AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 164 of 252
When those scholars are also seen to identify with the same sublime 'feminine', can we deny that unions between feminized-male and feminized-male are homoerotic?
Yes, "we" can deny it. And what she is arguing here is nonsense as the literati she portrayed were not shown to identify as feminine or so, plus by her logic it then should be able to consider to biological males as heterosexual after all.
Oct 16, 2020 11:15AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 163 of 252
Her stating that it is a misconception to see the rise of catamites and male prostitutes as a consequence of Qing laws prohibiting officials from visiting brothels, seems really stretching now. Just like her dismissal of the suggestion that because the literati sought out catamites who had undergone 'feminization', their sexual orientation remained 'heterosexual', or at least ambiguous.
Oct 16, 2020 11:12AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 162 of 252
Even in her conclusion she seems reluctant to adress the unsavory aspects of this dan/xiangiong/catamite etc. culture. No mentioning of exploitation now. Nothing about the lack of freedom of the prostitutes. Only shortly does she say that their conditions were mostly appalling and even then states that some were able to act in more businesslike ways and states that the best option later was to become master-trainers.
Oct 16, 2020 11:09AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 160 of 252
She would not like to create the impression there was only a single form of
homoeroticism or homosexuality in China? Sorry, but saying now that if at times her analysis makes it appear that way, it is only because there are limits to what the sources currently available can reveal, is a cop out in my mind. If any other forms were common at the time we would know.
Oct 16, 2020 11:04AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 159 of 252
it is not always clear whether the object of analysis is homosexuality or aesthetics and taste
Oh, I'd say its pretty clear that most of the time it is not homosexuality. It couldn't be based on pure probability. This was societal pressure and most of these "love affairs" she presented or suggested were glorified status symbols using human beings as nothing more than living decoration.
Oct 16, 2020 08:10AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 158 of 252
Because the fashion for dan was originally a means of advertising one's good taste, refinement and sense of 'sublime love', these circumstances would have deprived the dan of much of the romantic glow they once offered for the literati. Private residences and consorting with dan were transformed into topics of humour and derision.
Deservedly so if you ask me. That stuff was nothing but exploitation.
Oct 16, 2020 06:57AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 157 of 252
When the Beijing True Patriotism News has a section that shows clear since of western legal and cultural influence, this here sounds to me as if that influence was rather human rights. Something the system needed if you ask me. And she sounds to me as if she seems to point to western homophobia here, not rights. But the actors themselves rebelled against the system, so I doubt this was the real reason for the changes
Oct 16, 2020 06:56AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 156 of 252
When in 1911 one of the most famous dan in Beijing opera, Tian Jiyun,
began a campaign to close down what he referred to as the 'private residence system' (siyuzhi). that system could not have been good for the dan to begin with and I'd say good riddance. He considered the siyu system to be the most serious degradation of the theatre.
Oct 16, 2020 06:53AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 155 of 252
Shi Xiaofu was one of the most outstanding dan actors, and the Mingtong xiaolu one of the most influential huapu of the middle of the ninetecnth century. The point being made by the author of Cemao yutan is that the career of even the most favoured beauties could end up in the most degrading circurnstances. In this case that means he became a beggar.
Oct 16, 2020 06:42AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 154 of 252
Some of the more practical xianggong were able to take on young boys
for training and establish their own troupes, commencing their own career
as master-trainers (shifu) and managers of siyu. This was also seen as a
relatively favourable outcome.

Translation: They continued the cycle of abuse and exploitation. Most were given minor stage roles or did other menial tasks.
Oct 16, 2020 06:39AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 154 of 252
Once they had turned twenty the individual prospects for a xianggong
were quite grave, and most would begin to think of alternatives several
years ahead. If they still had a strong relationship with a wealthy dou they
might approach him to buy them out oftheir 'apprenticeship' (chushi). This might free them from the master-trainer. Some might manage to become a concubine but that never lasted due to masculinity.
Oct 16, 2020 06:37AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 153 of 252
The career of a dan was usually short from 13-18, as soon as signs of masculinity appeared on their bodies the costumers began to dissappear. And here she says years and I hope it means years as of today's system. Earlier she said catamites begin at 12 or 13 "sui", and at 14-15 sui was their prime, and in today's years that would mean at least 1 year less, maybe two, so the prime was at 13-14 years of age...oh my god
Oct 16, 2020 06:04AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 153 of 252
So apart from the dan/xiangiong, there were also the boys who sang, but who did not act, and who workcd in 'flower groups' (huadangzi) or 'singing groups' (changdangzz). They also dressed in women's clothes and were more lewd and less prestigious. An even 'lower' form of prostitute was boys working in barbershops (titoupu)k relying solely on their appearance. In the novel Pinhua baojian only the most vile visit them.
Oct 16, 2020 04:29AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 152 of 252
Of course the masters were keen to get as much money out of their "flowers" as they could for the short amount of time that they could work successfully as dan. And the more money a dan made the less free he was. The descriptions available in the sources show them making use of every opportunity to 'sell' their dan to the clients. And some sources suggest dan were even lower than household menials.
Oct 16, 2020 03:41AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 151 of 252
Wherever the boys went they would almost always be accompanied by a gentu (literally rabbit escort) or suiren (assistant), a minder working for the master-trainer. He reports the visits, tips, gifts, that dan behaved in proper manner and upbraid them if they caused trouble. The minders were greatly feared (referred to as tigers) for the reports to the master could result in a severe beating (examples are given).
Oct 16, 2020 03:15AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 149 of 252
"The cream is usually under twenty" assumes at least some exceptions. Still, what she presented is disturbing. At least she has the honesty to state that e.g. none of the properties that have been so marvelously appointed actually belong to the actors themselves. In most cases it would be more accurate to describe the xianggong as one of the furnishings in a fantasy world owned by the master-trainer.
Oct 16, 2020 03:07AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 144 of 252
Restaurant rooms were an integral part of the world of
theatre and prostitution. And as for the actors, I think that in 1912 "many actors rose up against what was essentially a system of forced prostitution and abolished their arrangements under the 'private residence sytsem' (siyuzhi)" speaks volumes. Combine that with how some literati considered vulnerability lovely and you have a recipe for an abusive system.
Oct 16, 2020 02:42AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 143 of 252
Then he pressed his dainty red lips hard against Yuanmao's mouth
and slowly let it out, thus toasting him three times.

That might be the only reference to a kiss ever in this book and its not even a real kiss, its a form of pooring whine to someone. And considering the amount of alcohol involved in these restaurant scenes and the feminized appearance of the Dan, I doubt the homoerotic element.
Oct 16, 2020 02:22AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 142 of 252
A man of high status who took friends to one of the more prestigious restaurants was expected to 'order' xianggong to keep his party company (one for each guest), And she thinks this sometimes amounds to a love affair? I doubt it would be called so today. At least the more popular boys could refuse patrons or be there only briefly and so were spared the
attentions that most suffered at the hands of their patrons.
Oct 16, 2020 02:19AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 131 of 252
Troupe managers enhanced the illusion by giving dan ilamboyant, feminized stage names ( indistinguishable from women's names). In compiling their 'flower guides' reviewers were bound by the rules of the genre to eradicate, or cover over, any hint of masculinity. The highest praise for dan/xianggong always spoke of their unique femininity. Which is what the author calls a homoerotic sensibility.
Oct 16, 2020 01:57AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 129 of 252
The first step to training dan in Beijing involves keeping the boy inside, starving, eating only coarse gruel and few weed roots without a drop of oil or salt, the more inedible the better, for at least 1 month until the skin turns white. Other methods include grease and ointments. All for a feminized appearance and air, an imitation of women. Which includes women's hairstyles and imitating bound feet.
Oct 16, 2020 01:51AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 127 of 252
I remember another book claiming the whole "homo" thing was not particularly associated with southern china, but then why were most boys from the South and only when they became unavailable due to the Taiping revolt did they switch to northern boys and even them quite a number where from families originating in the south. Where the northern boys too butch? Seems like switching to the North in late Qing was forced.
Oct 16, 2020 12:14AM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

Andre
Andre is on page 125 of 252
So by 1770 the emperor had approved an imperial memorial to the effect that anyone descendent from an entertainer or bond-servant should never be allowed to take part in civil examination. And I doubt selling a child into entertainment would really bring better life due to wealth and fame possibility than being a servant. The fame and wealth was very fleeting and few actors chose their careers until late Qing.
Oct 15, 2020 11:40PM Add a comment
Homoerotic Sensibilities in Late Imperial China (Routledge/Asian Studies Association of Australia (ASAA) East Asian Series)

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